Author Topic: Re-add Blocking and Kicking  (Read 4750 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2013, 03:35:42 pm »
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I never said kicking as a whole is horribly OP.


Kicking with blocking was sort of OP because you could spam it without penalty. It's a good thing to make kicks more risky, and this is why not being to block while your kick is nice, and also more balanced.

Current kicks are sort of OP because of the range buff, but at least now all classes are more or less equal when it comes to doing kicks. Those with short weapons are still dominating the receiving end by a huge margin, though.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2013, 03:38:39 pm »
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How would a shield kick and still block with a shield--for the same reason you couldn't block down. I agree with Require though I miss my kicks :( Even though I don't play much anymore

You'd hold the shield on the side of your body, or you'd hold it above your leg...

I'd prefer they bring back the old kicks (with native reach/width) rather than what we have now (feels like this visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Offline Require

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2013, 03:44:39 pm »
+1
Kicking with blocking was sort of OP because you could spam it without penalty.
I think Butan refuted this statement with his previous points.
*edit typo

Offline LordLargos

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2013, 05:00:30 pm »
+3
Kicking also no longer seems to cancel attacks. Over half the time I kick someone they get hit by the kick, but thier swing still goes through.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 04:47:42 pm by LordLargos »
Well, this doesn't look good for you. Four team kills - definitely intentional, Appeared to be afk more than once in the video.Also kicking people off of walls is grieving! don't do it.... but ill let you off with a warning this time, only because I don't like largos anyway.

Offline Require

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2013, 05:05:29 pm »
+2
Kicking also no longer seems to cancel attacks, Over half the time I kick someone they get hit by the kick but thier swing still goes through.
Something they NEED to fix.

Offline Duster

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2013, 05:13:22 pm »
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Kicking also no longer seems to cancel attacks, Over half the time I kick someone they get hit by the kick but thier swing still goes through.

The only times I have troubles with kicks are when the kick lands too late, triggering what you're talking about, and in strat battles when oftentimes they don't land at all (which I have a feeling is because of the server load/ping difference).
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2013, 05:49:51 pm »
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Would everyone like to know how to stop kick spammers? It's a secret called.. STABBING. Seriously you guys act like there was no stopping kicks. If you didn't know.  :|
I you didn't know, you could block stabs just fine while kicking. Guess no one figured that out in NA, but the kickspammers here all did it.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2013, 06:11:13 pm »
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I've always carried a shield, but I'm pretty sure if you were holding down block before you kicked, you kept on holding it?

Can't say it was really an issue on NA, but then again, not all weapons have stab on them. 
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Offline Zanze

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2013, 06:17:57 pm »
+3
A kick was meant to be high risk high reward, if you can block and kick where is the risk? Adapt.

Now if only they made kicking share a cooldown with nudging...

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2013, 06:25:24 pm »
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I you didn't know, you could block stabs just fine while kicking. Guess no one figured that out in NA, but the kickspammers here all did it.
No, most NA players just suffer from memory loss and forgot about that.
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2013, 06:47:54 pm »
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A kick was meant to be high risk high reward, if you can block and kick where is the risk? Adapt.

Now if only they made kicking share a cooldown with nudging...
That's actually a pretty good idea.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2013, 07:03:35 pm »
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I don't really like the idea of cooldowns longer than the animation. There's no physical reason preventing you from spamming kicks, and if you need a cooldown for balance reasons, there's probably a deeper problem with the capacity. The main reason I don't like it is because the user has to remember an arbitrary time interval in order to maximize his effectiveness in order to use the ability well, instead of analysing the situations in which you should kick/nudge/whatever. The former means it's always beneficial to use the ability when you can (which was largely true with the old kicks), the latter means you have to read the game.

Also kicks definitely had low risk

Blocking with kicking was not low-risk, it was average-risk because :

- when you kick you cant rotate your body

Unless your enemy is extremely close to you and is also sidestepping very fast, on regular flat terrain and actively avoiding a kick, this isn't a problem given the length of this state

- if the kick misses, the enemy is out of range or at your left/right
- the enemy can hit you from behind if they move around your left/right
- the enemy can kill you even if you kick-block

He is only out of range if your weapon is shorter than kick range. You can only get really punished if the enemy gets in your back


A cooldown on kick would have been smarter, now if you kick you're most likely very sure you're going to land it, or you're dead.

You don't miss your kick, or you may be hit once if you are a little bit unlucky. First off, you shouldn't miss. It's not that hard to refrain from attempting kicks all the time, and there are many situations in which kicking is really an evident choice (more on siege maps). Second, being hit isn't that bad for you, Butan :P

You're almost never sure you're going to land it

Sure enough to try it naked, really. Against your average short weapon user kicks are super easy to land, as well as against anyone stuck or on a slope/on stairs/near a ledge. They also grant a second free hit on people that were knocked down (did that nearly three times in a row to you :D )

=> people stop kicking

=> less gameplay elements

=> less fun

GG cRPG

(click to show/hide)

People still kick, especially when they should (also you see more shielders doing kicks). It's a very powerful move and works best when unexpected, a bit like chamberblocking. It doesn't need to be spammed to be an important and interesting game mechanic. I think there's also a problem with timing on top of the current range, because kicks last so long you can be kicked after dodging it, while attempting a counterattack. A little bit like 2h stabs and overheads I should say.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 07:20:05 pm by Kafein »

Offline Butan

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2013, 08:58:34 pm »
-1
Second, being hit isn't that bad for you, Butan :P


Yea, removing kick-block is a nice buff for STR whore, so I shouldnt complain  :P

But I see way less kicking attempts;

People with less than 100 HP (weaklings) and less than 60 overall armor rating (light gear), are not happy and as a spokesman for every person of this world who isnt as stronk as me, I gotta STEP UP

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2013, 09:23:38 pm »
+1
That's actually a pretty good idea.
Yeah, proposed that to urist a few days ago. He informed me that unfortunately, kicks are hardcoded and thus can't be put on the same cooldown as nudges, without the use of WSE 2. That being the case, the best we could hope for is to not allow a nudge after a kick (it's the opposite that is being abused, not this). Honestly though, after the newest changes get implemented nudge + kick combos should no longer be a problem.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Re-add Blocking and Kicking
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2013, 11:01:09 pm »
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I just thought up a way how to do it but I think I'm just too lazy. I also think it won't be needed after the changes to nudge.