MURRICCA c-rpg clan league - If you build it they will come

[Gristle]

Why the segregation?

It's an easy one first, huh? Because it's an NA league.

It's not a league for those who has played NA_1 the longest, it's a teamcup.

Right, it's a teamcup for those who regularly play on the NA servers. (like yourselves)

And why narrow it down to just the europeans? How do you feel about brazilians, aussies(new zealanders too), chinese etc? Are they allowed from your point of view? They are just as far away (if not even further).

As an example, I don't care which team Ken456 chooses to represent, since he so regularly chooses to play on NA maps already.

HOWEVER, I never want to see a Merc, Byzantium, Nord, Wolve, or otherwise obviously EU player/clan in this NA tournament.

[bagge]

HOWEVER, I never want to see a Merc, Byzantium, Nord, Wolve, or otherwise obviously EU player/clan in this NA tournament.

[Turboflex]

I don't see the problem with Euros playing, it's called 'Murica league cuz the server is hosted here so we didn't expect any to enter. If they want to play with 150-200ms ping to Dallas that's a huge disadvantage.

Seems like people here are madder about archers well like I said earlier bring shields and if you are a 2h hero make a STF character that is still 2h but has some shield points and spawn with a shield. You can even switch characters during a match if needed so there's no good reason to sit there and be shot up because you can't spare some points out of your precious min-max 2h build. Facing shields archers are almost useless especially euro ones who can't melee with 150ms+ ping.

[kasMVC]

I would like to commend everyone we have played on their great sportsmanship

[MrShine]

WARNING: Long ass post
So I think there are a few issues going on here: people who have a problem with the ranged, people who have a problem with EU players in the league, and people who have a problem with non-clanmembers joining teams.

Ranged - I think this is something that needs to be dealt with in the metagame.  STFs and alts are allowed, so if you get destroyed by ranged one map think about swapping in alts that might be able to deal with it better (aka shields) the next.  Ranged is strong if they can pick off key players early, but IMO the bulk of the match is still decided in the melee scrums.  I'm sorry if some people aren't enjoying this side of the matches, but it is what it is.

EU players - It's an NA oriented league, that much is clear.  However I don't have any specific problems with allowing EU players to participate, since they will naturally be disadvantaged.  Some clans have EU folks in them and prohibiting people from playing with their clanmates or friends just because they live somewhere else seems to me to be an arbitrary restriction that will prevent more fun than it would promote.

I think the (my) biggest concern is the idea of having non-clanmembers play an active role in the league.  There are no explicit rules against it, other than making sure people are added to rosters ahead of time and people don't join multiple rosters.  Frisia did indeed add Bagge to the roster in a PM request that I didn't update yet, and no rules have been broken, but I do think this might warrant further discussion about how we can improve on our roster rules in the future.

I'll say off the bat that this season I've been mostly interested in getting the word out there and getting teams interested, which has caused us to be lax with our roster restrictions. 

An example of this is the independent team which essentially has a smattering of strong players from a mix of clans & non-clanned members - they don't all really operate as a team so much as a horde of high skill individuals operating independently but effectively.   There are a lot more Chaos members on it now so it's starting to resemble a clan, but it's strikingly different from most other teams submitted.

I'm ok with that if we want to adjust things in upcoming seasons.  The league has been clan focused, but I think what some clans have in internal chemistry among members they might lack in competitive skill (I'll be the first to say this is probably why Astralis is 0-3 right now - we have a bunch of solid players but our team makeup has generally been whoever's around to play that night, which doesn't usually translate into our best 8).

I think we could go one of two ways - we can either restrict rosters next season to be more clan/group oriented, or we can open it up and turn it into smaller rosters but more teams, and drop the pretense of needing a clan.  This could also encourage a lot more non-clan members or small clans from joining up, and we could end up getting more competition.  But maybe that will ruin the fun for some people. 

For now I propose we don't change things and let season 1 play out; teams can add people onto their rosters as they see fit, provided they aren't already on a different team.   The end-of season tournament may have rule adjustments, and we can talk about how we might want to change things for season 2.   

[Relit]

I think the (my) biggest concern is the idea of having non-clanmembers an active role in the league.  There are no explicit rules against it, other than making sure people are added to rosters ahead of time and people don't join multiple rosters.  Frisia did indeed add Bagge to the roster in a PM request that I didn't update yet, and no rules have been broken, but I do think this might warrant further discussion about how we can improve on our roster rules in the future.

I'll say off the bat that this season I've been mostly interested in getting the word out there and getting teams interested, which has caused us to be lax with our roster restrictions. 

What about ringers then? Without restrictions the must-win-at-all-costs mentality rears its ugly head. I was hoping to avoid that type of play when I heard this was a clan league. Guess I was wrong.

Edit: This mostly appears in clans who vehemently dislike each other so much, they are willing to cross into the unsportsmanlike field of play.

[Relit]

Afraid we'll kick your ass with this Europe guy we found?

Raven roster is 90% shielders. I am not concerned at all about archers. I am more concerned about integrity and fair play.

[Turboflex]

I personally am more in favour of this being a clan oriented thing, there are also a lot of larger clans that did not get onboard for season 1 that I would like to see entering teams for season 2 (clans like Hospitaller, MB, HoC, LCO, SS, Acre). I see a lot of guys from these clans dropping into matches now and asking how to get on. Chaos & Remnants also seem to have taken over Independent and PRO rosters respectively.

In the future I would say teams could be based on c-rpg.net ladder clans but with an allowance to add maybe 3-5 non-clan members to roster or two smaller clans could form a joint entry.

[Jack1]

WARNING: Long ass post
So I think there are a few issues going on here: people who have a problem with the ranged, people who have a problem with EU players in the league, and people who have a problem with non-clanmembers joining teams.

Ranged - I think this is something that needs to be dealt with in the metagame.  STFs and alts are allowed, so if you get destroyed by ranged one map think about swapping in alts that might be able to deal with it better (aka shields) the next.  Ranged is strong if they can pick off key players early, but IMO the bulk of the match is still decided in the melee scrums.  I'm sorry if some people aren't enjoying this side of the matches, but it is what it is.

EU players - It's an NA oriented league, that much is clear.  However I don't have any specific problems with allowing EU players to participate, since they will naturally be disadvantaged.  Some clans have EU folks in them and prohibiting people from playing with their clanmates or friends just because they live somewhere else seems to me to be an arbitrary restriction that will prevent more fun than it would promote.

I think the (my) biggest concern is the idea of having non-clanmembers play an active role in the league.  There are no explicit rules against it, other than making sure people are added to rosters ahead of time and people don't join multiple rosters.  Frisia did indeed add Bagge to the roster in a PM request that I didn't update yet, and no rules have been broken, but I do think this might warrant further discussion about how we can improve on our roster rules in the future.

I'll say off the bat that this season I've been mostly interested in getting the word out there and getting teams interested, which has caused us to be lax with our roster restrictions. 

An example of this is the independent team which essentially has a smattering of strong players from a mix of clans & non-clanned members - they don't all really operate as a team so much as a horde of high skill individuals operating independently but effectively.   There are a lot more Chaos members on it now so it's starting to resemble a clan, but it's strikingly different from most other teams submitted.

I'm ok with that if we want to adjust things in upcoming seasons.  The league has been clan focused, but I think what some clans have in internal chemistry among members they might lack in competitive skill (I'll be the first to say this is probably why Astralis is 0-3 right now - we have a bunch of solid players but our team makeup has generally been whoever's around to play that night, which doesn't usually translate into our best 8).

I think we could go one of two ways - we can either restrict rosters next season to be more clan/group oriented, or we can open it up and turn it into smaller rosters but more teams, and drop the pretense of needing a clan.  This could also encourage a lot more non-clan members or small clans from joining up, and we could end up getting more competition.  But maybe that will ruin the fun for some people. 

For now I propose we don't change things and let season 1 play out; teams can add people onto their rosters as they see fit, provided they aren't already on a different team.   The end-of season tournament may have rule adjustments, and we can talk about how we might want to change things for season 2.

How about having a max roster of say 10 with 6 players at a time. This would allow groups of friends to play together while splitting up monster rosters like that of tkov.

[AluminumMonster]

I personally am more in favour of this being a clan oriented thing, there are also a lot of larger clans that did not get onboard for season 1 that I would like to see entering teams for season 2 (clans like Hospitaller, MB, HoC, LCO, SS, Acre). I see a lot of guys from these clans dropping into matches now and asking how to get on. Chaos & Remnants also seem to have taken over Independent and PRO rosters respectively.

In the future I would say teams could be based on c-rpg.net ladder clans but with an allowance to add maybe 3-5 non-clan members to roster or two smaller clans could form a joint entry.

No, PRO is PRO. We have a few remnant people, but just use the banner.

[Turboflex]

I would say it would be based on banner anyway.

[Turboflex]

How about having a max roster of say 10 with 6 players at a time. This would allow groups of friends to play together while splitting up monster rosters like that of tkov.

Most clans don't have enough reliable players to do that and prefer to keep them open so they can play whoever makes it.

[Zanze]

So soon? I thought this was going to be a clan vs clan kind of thing. Byzantium and Hospitaller signing up under Frisia? I am disappoint. The EU part of it, I don't really care or mind. I just seriously believed when entering this that it would be a real tournament between clans and their direct members, not clans and whoever they can hire to fight for them. I don't see sports team X taking allstar player from team Y just so they can beat team Z in a match and then returning the allstar player right after. That seems silly, and extremely cheap.

Imo, Lock up the roster when the season starts. No extra additions unless in the case someone drops out and needs to be subbed. In the case that happens, the person who drops out would need to stay out. Ie, make a team have 12 slots with 4 subs. Given the matches are 8 on 8, that means you have 8 extra players(overkill imo, but the whine would be too much to handle if there were less extra players). The subs would be allowed to be non-clan, the initial 12 slots must be part of the clan that is signing up. If your clan isn't big enough to sign up under those conditions, find another clan to sign up with.

Simple fix for last minute additions. May be a bit harsh, but I am a stickler for strict rules that are easy to follow. If your argument is in defense of extra large clans, if they can fill up two rosters than they can sign up two different teams. However, one player should not be able to sign up twice.

I was excited for this competition thinking it would actually be played fair. You can't brag if you win each match by loop-holing the rules. Please keep it fair.


(My opinion is mine as Zan the indvidual, not as Raven the clan.)

[BaleOhay]

I was not at the FCC frisia third round and i would say the major issue I have is that the match already started. Should not be able to edit your roster during a match (granted the final round was postponed) but should function like a fantasy football league where you can not make adjustments to your team because you see an opportunity.

[Penguin]

I was not at the FCC frisia third round and i would say the major issue I have is that the match already started. Should not be able to edit your roster during a match (granted the final round was postponed) but should function like a fantasy football league where you can not make adjustments to your team because you see an opportunity.

So you should have just forfeit when you guys left without even discussing it with anyone on the opposing team. Remember, Frisians swept the first match, got up 2-0 in the second match before you guys tied it at 2-2, then you announced you were leaving. Even with the same roster the trend was that you guys were getting definitively beat. Hopefully we can now end these posts and get back to playing matches.