Author Topic: [NEW] Commander Mode  (Read 11411 times)

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Offline Nessaj

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #135 on: May 19, 2013, 10:40:51 pm »
+5
I wouldn't want them to have weapons because I can guarantee you there would be some (not all, but probably still plenty) players who would aggressively chase enemy commanders and/or pick off bots when convenient, and I simply can't be bothered to deal with that. You say it wouldn't happen? Then why even enable weapons?

You can guarantee? Based on what, your experience in said other commander modes? Some valid examples here please. If you've seen this happen plentiful, sure then, you win.
I've just played those I could find, mostly the official Napoleonic Wars one, and I've never seen anyone charge out with their commander to slay bots. Because simply they would die.

All that matters is that you at least have something. Not having something takes away from the whole feel overall.

There's other measures so people don't charge off once troops dead, since commander would die, and with squishy armor there's even less incentive to charge out.


Would a few bots die? Maybe one or two, three max. More already die to horse bumping at the moment.

As long as the weapon is very slow, e.g. feels super heavy, and doesn't do too much damage, there's no issue here, which is exactly how it works in the other mods.
You can't fight multiple bots, it is already hard enough fighting one due to the weapon being slow, but at least you can fight instead of just standing there trying to throw high fives.
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Offline okiN

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #136 on: May 19, 2013, 10:54:43 pm »
0
You can guarantee? Based on what, your experience in said other commander modes? Some valid examples here please. If you've seen this happen plentiful, sure then, you win.

First of all: knowing this community and people in general, I think that's enough to guarantee it. Second, it happened all the time whenever we tried to organize bot commander matches on Native. It was a huge struggle to keep people from doing it even when we'd agreed on it as a house rule, I shudder to think how bad it would be if it was actually allowed.

Even if it was worked out so that commanders would have to be suicidal to go near enemy bots (which I don't think is possible given the AI), I still wouldn't want to have to worry about some dickhead trying to ninja me from behind when I'm focused on giving orders to my troops.
Don't.

Offline Tomas_of_Miles

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #137 on: May 19, 2013, 11:08:58 pm »
+2
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Offline Nessaj

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #138 on: May 19, 2013, 11:10:37 pm »
+1
First of all: knowing this community and people in general, I think that's enough to guarantee it. Second, it happened all the time whenever we tried to organize bot commander matches on Native. It was a huge struggle to keep people from doing it even when we'd agreed on it as a house rule, I shudder to think how bad it would be if it was actually allowed.

Even if it was worked out so that commanders would have to be suicidal to go near enemy bots (which I don't think is possible given the AI), I still wouldn't want to have to worry about some dickhead trying to ninja me from behind when I'm focused on giving orders to my troops.

If someone can ninja you in the back the weapon they have isn't bad enough, but sure, if it happens then suddenly it is about surviving some idiot via fighting rather than commanding, which should never happen.
I'll take no weapons over that scenario any day, but I'd rather work towards solving that issue than "having no weapon" being final. Else go go invisible/flying commander :wink:

Only allowing horses for cavalry commanders would help that a bit, though obviously the trolls would just go cav then, plus they'd start bumping commanders without horses (already happens).

A few ways to alleviate the issue:
  • Add ~2/3/4 bots who follow the commander around as a guard unit. Fast attackers so they can kill a commander easily, but little armor so normal units butcher them. Anything to balance.
  • Bots auto-fire at commanders if within specific range (pretty sure they do this in NW)
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Offline okiN

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #139 on: May 19, 2013, 11:25:42 pm »
0
If someone can ninja you in the back the weapon they have isn't bad enough

You were talking about mid-range 1h weapons and cloth armour. In that scenario they could take me down in one or two hits.

Only allowing horses for cavalry commanders would help that a bit

I think it would leave you too vulnerable to enemy bots, on top of making it much harder to command effectively.

Add ~2/3/4 bots who follow the commander around as a guard unit. Fast attackers so they can kill a commander easily, but little armor so normal units butcher them. Anything to balance.

I bet some heroes would still try to fight them, and occasionally win.

Bots auto-fire at commanders if within specific range (pretty sure they do this in NW)

This would make it really easy to draw their fire away from your own bots, they're bad with moving targets so survivability probably wouldn't be too low.
Don't.

Offline Bjord

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #140 on: May 19, 2013, 11:32:14 pm »
0
What about the player controlling the movement input of the guard bots with a slight delay? You'd be surrounded by them, giving you live shields.
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Offline SoA_Sir_ODHarry

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #141 on: May 19, 2013, 11:55:47 pm »
+1
I doesent see the point why so many peeps complaining about weopenless Commanders.You are already busy enuff with micromanaging your Troops even if u just got 1 Trooptype under control.
I think all Commanders should control atleast 2 Types of different Troops then u wont have much time too go too Melee anyway...
Bumps should be disabeled aswell because the Fun part of this Mod ,is obvisously too command your Army with your actual Character.
I got the same opinion about a Minimap ,it drives away the Focus of the Mod which is obvisously commanding your Bots with limited ("realistic") Possibylits.
That the Bots AI is Crap anyway is a point that doesent matter..U know what they capabel of and what not so u gotta use what u got too win against your Foe....
 
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Offline Butan

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #142 on: May 20, 2013, 01:00:29 am »
+4
I doesent see the point why so many peeps complaining about weopenless Commanders.You are already busy enuff with micromanaging your Troops even if u just got 1 Trooptype under control.

When you become experienced, it wont be as hard to manage and you will have a lot of free time on your hand, I guarantee you !  :)
Still very busy you're right, but could do with more "way to play".





Btw pro-tip (discovered by me & zlisch):

- maintaining F1 gives the selected unit the order to hold position where you're aiming
- pressing 1 / 2 / 3 (unit selection) while maintaining shift gives you the possibility to give an order to multiple troop type at once

Offline SoA_Sir_ODHarry

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #143 on: May 20, 2013, 01:49:15 am »
+1
well most of the time u can make ur Bots more efficent when u keep them close togehter in a Blob and not let them get spread , makes Inf much more effiecent like micromanage ur Cav
too make them chargin with high Speed again and again or get ur ranged too shoot in the Rear of the Enemy Inf .The more u focus at that the better the Result gonna be.
So its a Huge differnence if one controlls 1 or more than 1 Trooptype.

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Offline Sultan Eren

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #144 on: May 20, 2013, 02:21:47 am »
0
1- Let us fight by self.
2- Balancing native troops is unnecessary and hard; therefore give all players the same kind of soldiers.
3- Give all players the same amount of archers,cav and inf.

Otherwise it's shitty.
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Offline Arthur_

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #145 on: May 20, 2013, 07:13:58 am »
+1
I was playing the whole day yesterday and I and some other people  agreed that Nord Veterans are pretty much OP, since on every battle nord veterans slaughtered swadian/sarranid/rhodok infantry, even sarranid cav couldnt do a shit against nords on plain landscape, so pls give them other weapons or something like that, maybe warhammers are OP for bots :mrgreen:, or just give them an armor nerf.
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Offline Royans

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #146 on: May 20, 2013, 10:15:25 am »
+1
I was playing the whole day yesterday and I and some other people  agreed that Nord Veterans are pretty much OP, since on every battle nord veterans slaughtered swadian/sarranid/rhodok infantry, even sarranid cav couldnt do a shit against nords on plain landscape, so pls give them other weapons or something like that, maybe warhammers are OP for bots :mrgreen:, or just give them an armor nerf.

While their cavalry is nearly useless, and their range  r so bad compare to any sharpshooter. so u want to nerf the only thing nord have? xD

Offline Felix

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #147 on: May 20, 2013, 10:56:23 am »
0
Maybe implement new factions based on various clans' theme? Like Ninja faction, Byzantium faction, Mercs etc etc

Offline Tomas_of_Miles

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #148 on: May 20, 2013, 11:56:29 am »
+1
Maybe implement new factions based on various clans' theme? Like Ninja faction, Byzantium faction, Mercs etc etc

OR just a single playable faction with more troop types.
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Offline Butan

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Re: [NEW] Commander Mode
« Reply #149 on: May 20, 2013, 12:27:51 pm »
0
I was playing the whole day yesterday and I and some other people  agreed that Nord Veterans are pretty much OP, since on every battle nord veterans slaughtered swadian/sarranid/rhodok infantry, even sarranid cav couldnt do a shit against nords on plain landscape, so pls give them other weapons or something like that, maybe warhammers are OP for bots :mrgreen:, or just give them an armor nerf.

Dont forget that the AI behavior is hard to "control"...
The cav is particularly bad to play because they have a hard time couching and if they are still mounted, against infantry, they will try to thrust lances without speed, in close quarters combat...

Best tactic for cavalry is to make them follow you, and you pass behind the enemy squad you want to attack: making the cavalry effectively bump the enemy.
When you have sufficiently "surrounded them" with bots, press charge, wait a few sec, and tell them to follow you again and do a bump charge again, or make them dismount and fight (because they are way better at foot most of the time).