hoplite needs a serious nerf

[Zanze]

I'd quote you, but there a few posts you make me laugh on Shaksie.

To start, you downvoted me on polearms glancing at long ranges. Yes, they do, and when it happens it brings very nasty stun. I also like how you even mention in a post what happens when polearm stabs glance or are blocked.

Second, your post on the turn nerf? All I read is "In my Opinion" "-I- am bad at this" "-I- am bad at that." To you I say what I have told everyone else, once you get use to the turn nerf and begin to compensate you will be fine.

Third, he is talking about the German Greatsword and he is correct on the damage because we are talking about polearms(this is a thread about polearms, not 1h or 2h). Most two handed swords have a polearm mode, the German Greatsword variation has a 34-35 pierce stab attack. (So if it is 34, he may be off 1p) Tydeus is bad

[Tydeus]

I was actually referring to the old days when it really had 34p base and was 38 loomed, with a 2h stab animation. First weapon I heirloomed in crpg. As much as I look back on those days with rose tinted goggles, I'm still fully capable of realizing that shit was op as fuck.

[Zanze]

You are a terrible person.

[Shaksie]

I'd quote you, but there a few posts you make me laugh on Shaksie.

To start, you downvoted me on polearms glancing at long ranges. Yes, they do, and when it happens it brings very nasty stun. I also like how you even mention in a post what happens when polearm stabs glance or are blocked.

Second, your post on the turn nerf? All I read is "In my Opinion" "-I- am bad at this" "-I- am bad at that." To you I say what I have told everyone else, once you get use to the turn nerf and begin to compensate you will be fine.

Third, he is talking about the German Greatsword and he is correct on the damage because we are talking about polearms(this is a thread about polearms, not 1h or 2h). Most two handed swords have a polearm mode, the German Greatsword variation has a 34-35 pierce stab attack. (So if it is 34, he may be off 1p) Tydeus is bad

I'm glad I provide you with humour!
Er, that downvote was an accident.
I am significantly better than you, this is almost a guarantee. If I am bad at something (I'm a reasonable amount over average in Aus, which let's be honest, we duel more than you guys so we are better at it than you) then chances are quite a few other people are having the same problems. Yes I need to get used to it but there are moments when regardless of how accustomed to it I am, due to having to turn into stabs for them not to glance and to do any reasonable amount of damage, the nerf will hinder my ability to fight.
Strong mathematics my friend, 38-34 is not 1.

I was actually referring to the old days when it really had 34p base and was 38 loomed, with a 2h stab animation. First weapon I heirloomed in crpg. As much as I look back on those days with rose tinted goggles, I'm still fully capable of realizing that shit was op as fuck.

While that is pretty disgusting, it's not relevant good broseph.

Now back to the topic;
If a hoplite can kick well and his spear isn't too slow, he can very easily S key, kick you then stab you in the face which does hurt quite a lot. If you combat this by footwork then he can easily take his shield off to duel you; yes his spear won't be as effective as your average 2h hero but spears are not weak.
If they still know how to wiggle their spear, they can hit you when you facehug them as well.

[oohillac]

If a hoplite can kick well and his spear isn't too slow, he can very easily S key, kick you then stab you in the face which does hurt quite a lot.

If you fall for such an obvious ploy, you deserve to be hit.  Don't walk right into someone who is visibly positioning themselves for a kick.

If they still know how to wiggle their spear, they can hit you when you facehug them as well.

Try downblocking, it works wonders.  Better yet, if you are a 2h, use your crazy stab animation.

[Konrax]

If you fall for such an obvious ploy, you deserve to be hit.  Don't walk right into someone who is visibly positioning themselves for a kick.

Try downblocking, it works wonders.  Better yet, if you are a 2h, use your crazy stab animation.

Have you seen how easy it is to land a kick now?

[Shaksie]

If you fall for such an obvious ploy, you deserve to be hit.  Don't walk right into someone who is visibly positioning themselves for a kick.

Try downblocking, it works wonders.  Better yet, if you are a 2h, use your crazy stab animation.

So, should I treat every single S key press as being a ploy for kick? Hoplites simply must S key so kicking is not an obvious ploy and if they are good then it is significantly harder.
If I do not have enough speed to hit them, it is very, very easy for them to jumpspinstab me.
I know this because I do all of these things regularly.

Have you seen how easy it is to land a kick now?

This!

[Berserkadin]

Shaksie, I'm curious, what class do you play yourself?

[Zanze]

I'm glad I can educate the children.
Strong mathematics my friend, 38-34 is not 1.

I'm going to ignore the rest of the post because I've now learned that you are as smart as a broken stove. But since education is important for little kids, I feel it is my duty to help you not fail mathematics. Given the base of 34p to the greatsword stab in polearm mode, the fact we are talking about a loomed greatsword, and Tydeus mentioning 38p as the final result. My response to him being possibly off 1p is actually correct. Here is why: When you loom something 3 times, you get +3 damage as a final result. However, oddities have existed such as the great maul receiving +4 damage in the past. I did not know if it worked that way for polearm mode 2hs.

Now then, I never was good at word problems so I'll assume you are just as bad. So here are numbers. X being whether or not the sword gets the 1 extra damage or not. So x = 0, 1

34+3 +x= 38
37+(1)=38
37+(0)=37
38-37=1
The more you know.

Also, for the topic's sake. Yes, a Hoplite's usage of the S key is akin to a magician reaching into his bag of tricks. You never know what may come out, but you know it is most likely bad for you so you shouldn't peak your head in.

[Shaksie]

Shaksie, I'm curious, what class do you play yourself?

Recently retired to archery.

I'm going to ignore the rest of the post because I've now learned that you are as smart as a broken stove. But since education is important for little kids, I feel it is my duty to help you not fail mathematics. Given the base of 34p to the greatsword stab in polearm mode, the fact we are talking about a loomed greatsword, and Tydeus mentioning 38p as the final result. My response to him being possibly off 1p is actually correct. Here is why: When you loom something 3 times, you get +3 damage as a final result. However, oddities have existed such as the great maul receiving +4 damage in the past. I did not know if it worked that way for polearm mode 2hs.

Now then, I never was good at word problems so I'll assume you are just as bad. So here are numbers. X being whether or not the sword gets the 1 extra damage or not. So x = 0, 1

34+3 +x= 38
37+(1)=38
37+(0)=37
38-37=1
The more you know.

Also, for the topic's sake. Yes, a Hoplite's usage of the S key is akin to a magician reaching into his bag of tricks. You never know what may come out, but you know it is most likely bad for you so you shouldn't peak your head in.

Actually no, Great Sword does not get +3 to stab damage, only items with near balanced swing/stab get +3 to both.
Can you hoplite with a Great Sword? No.
Then let us make love and stop arguing (I'll admit I instigated it) and address the topic at hand!
Perhaps they should be balanced along with the 2h polearms.

Shemaforash:

(click to show/hide)

Did you even read my post before you -1'd it?

[Revo142]

Typical.  Now that hoplite is a viable class, people want to nerf it to the ground.   

About hoplite population increasing, the medieval footman was most commonly armed with a spear and a shield of some kind.  The "Hoplite" class, or to a few people, the "What a guy in the middle ages would most likely be using" class is finally getting a little bit of love. 

On that note, I find it extremely ironic that the people who have problems with seeing more Spearmen around don't see anything wrong with 70% of the team consisting of Skyrim fantasy characters wielding Greatswords, which is still how the battle server looks today.

[no_rules_just_play]

Typical.  Now that hoplite is a viable class, people want to nerf it to the ground.   

About hoplite population increasing, the medieval footman was most commonly armed with a spear and a shield of some kind.  The "Hoplite" class, or to a few people, the "What a guy in the middle ages would most likely be using" class is finally getting a little bit of love. 

On that note, I find it extremely ironic that the people who have problems with seeing more Spearmen around don't see anything wrong with 70% of the team consisting of Skyrim fantasy characters wielding Greatswords, which is still how the battle server looks today.

the battle server looks like 30% hoplite and 40% 2H. I hate both classes. not because they are 'viable'. but because of the fact that they dont have any class counters. they counter every single class. (except 2H maybe)

[Tears of Destiny]

Have you seen how easy it is to land a kick now?

Have you seen how easy it is to chamber-kick now?

[Phew]

the battle server looks like 30% hoplite and 40% 2H. I hate both classes. not because they are 'viable'. but because of the fact that they dont have any class counters. they counter every single class. (except 2H maybe)

2h are countered by ranged, and hoplites are countered by people able to perform this sequence: downblock, attack, downblock, attack...

I'd say the classes without counters are HA/HX, moreso now that crossbow sidearms are no longer an option for 2h heroes. But "stand behind a tree and wait for master of field" is a counter of sorts.

[Jarlek]

2h are countered by ranged, and hoplites are countered by people able to perform this sequence: downblock, attack, downblock, attack...

I'd say the classes without counters are HA/HX, moreso now that crossbow sidearms are no longer an option for 2h heroes. But "stand behind a tree and wait for master of field" is a counter of sorts.

Shows how much you know about this game. Skirmisher anyone?

That's a thrower with a shield, btw. Works like a boss against HA/HC. Even without a shield, having some throwing is a great way to deal with HA/HC. You force them to stay away since charging only makes them lose their horse.