hoplite needs a serious nerf

[MrShine]

if there is hardly a counter to a class, it is considered too strong. Very low skill players can still use hoplite and be effective enough, not as strong as teeth, knitler and others but still too effective for their skill level. Nobody likes to be killed by some stupid game mechanic that obviously gives the edge to a certain class. You cant stab from a distance because they have the lenght bonus and if you stab from very close they have that shitty intsastab.
the problem is not that they have insta stab or very big reach or no need for manual blocking. Its the combination of ALL these things, that combination beats every other class.

When isolated into 1v1, the hoplite is almost always at a disadvantage.  Also I think you're overhyping the whole "insta-stab" thing.  The other side of the coin is "stab glance", which equals a free hit for the enemy if the hoplite is too close to the person they are engaged with and can't turn the stab.

Hoplites are strong as support certainly, but not some unstoppable juggernaut.

[Necrorave]

I'm not a hoplite so change it.

Ughh....

I can agree somewhat with the 1v1 stuff.  (Especially the armor crutch + regular spear hoplite)  Although it really isn't as bad as you make it sound.

[no_rules_just_play]

people are talking about downblock, but you cant keep downblocking. at a certain moment you will have to attack and they will benefit from their bigger distance field in wich they can attack. and what i mean with instastab is, that if you do it correctly, i ashwood pike can stab the enemy while you are standing against eachother, the ashwood pike with shield that outranges almost every other polearm except maybe the pike (and the long spear is negotiable)

Ughh....

I can agree somewhat with the 1v1 stuff.  (Especially the armor crutch + regular spear hoplite)  Although it really isn't as bad as you make it sound.

i have a hoplite alt wich is quite low lvl, i can get valour by sitting back in my chair and doing some half assed stabs without actually having to be sharp all the time. If i play my main, i am locked on the screen and i am focussed all the time, because otherwise i just die.

[Necrorave]

i have a hoplite alt wich is quite low lvl, i can get valour by sitting back in my chair and doing some half assed stabs without actually having to be sharp all the time. If i play my main, i am locked on the screen and i am focussed all the time, because otherwise i just die.

I have a hoplite alt as well.  I am not particularly good at hoplite to be honest because I am so accustom to 1h's.  So I tend to bounce often and get myself killed a lot.  Considering I am a 1h with a short sword (Most of the time)  I know what you are talking about.  I just don't see it as a big deal personally.  Now, perhaps a slight change in weapon speed when using a spear with a shield would help?

(Something very minor like a -1 or -2 to speed when using with a shield.)  I know weight of the shield already slows you a bit but its just an idea.

I think they are at a decent balance when used with a normal build.  I will agree that a armor crutch with an Elite cavalry shield and a regular spear is very annoying though.

Otherwise, invest in an axe or just run like I do.

[MrShine]

Now, perhaps a slight change in weapon speed when using a spear with a shield would help?

(Something very minor like a -1 or -2 to speed when using with a shield.)  I know weight of the shield already slows you a bit but its just an idea.

Unless they changed it, I think using 2h weapons in 1h mode (morningstar, longsword, hoplite spears etc) already has a speed penalty (something like 25%?).  IIRC it's the same speed penalty you get when using one of those weapons 1H while mounted.

[Torben]

there always one class being hyped,  having lots of guys out there doing it and making it feel unballanced just by the amount of them.  always was like that,  always will be i guess.

[Malaclypse]

The reach for most hoplite weapons isn't really that incredibly long. All of them except for Bamboo Spear are less than Long Spear (5 more with +50 reach from hoplite mode on base 200).

The stab on a German is (AFAIK 2h stab adds +80 length to listed stat) 204 compared to shield + Ashwood Pikes 206, so pretty close and cut damage side-swings to boot.

@ Necrowave Using an item in hoplite mode already provides a malus to speed IIRC. Maybe damage too? Not sure on that.

[Necrorave]

The reach for most hoplite weapons isn't really that incredibly long. All of them except for Bamboo Spear are less than Long Spear (5 more with +50 reach from hoplite mode on base 200).

The stab on a German is (AFAIK 2h stab adds +80 length to listed stat) 204 compared to shield + Ashwood Pikes 206, so pretty close and cut damage side-swings to boot.

@ Necrowave Using an item in hoplite mode already provides a malus to speed IIRC. Maybe damage too? Not sure on that.

Fair enough, either way.  I don't think anything is wrong with hoplites haha.

[Joker86]

I haven't played hoplite for quite some time. But in my old days, when I used to, back then, when everything was still made out of wood, hoplites sucked at anything which was not supporting others in melee and deterring horses. If you were close to an enemy your blows always glanced, and if the enemy blocked - which happened in 99% of your stabs in a duel - you were stunned for at least two hours, sometimes the entire afternoon.

Did this change?

[Spa_geh_tea]

Still amused that hoplites are considered OP.

 After all these years....so many attempts to buff them with a second stab or something so they were not complete shit.

I'm not to sure if anything about them is different than before, except the glance reduction. But, that glance reduction applies to everyone so....its square.

Is a hoplite superior to anything else? Nope, just one attack with mediocre pierce and the brain of the user.

How to kill a hoplite
Chamber, chamber, chamber....or hilt slash.

[Ronin]

Also overhead if you have a maul.

[no_rules_just_play]

or use the only thing that should be able to outrange it and get outranged or hit the shield and see the magic of glance...

[Kafein]

Honestly, hoplites are not OP. Not most of them, anyway.

But the number one feature that makes up for their relative weakness is just bullshit. Instant facehug stabs that never glance, no thanks. Of course that isn't something exclusive to hoplites, but they are the class that makes the most intensive use of that glitch.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

the only thing that annoys me when im hopliting is this tendancy to hit everyting on the right of my lance eventhough i don't even touch them! 

[Dezilagel]

I didn't read the entire thread, but please just unfuck the turnrate and the timing like Teeth said.

Also, I think a big reason people use the hoplite is because it's the only melee class which can deter both ranged and cav with reasonable efficiency. Also, now that melee is more about groupfights rather than solo play hoplites just happen to fit the metagame very well.