The ranking system is too unfriendly to new players

[Teeth]

Part of the cRPG content is also competitivity, which looms obstruct. To be able to experience the full content of cRPG, you need to be able to compete, which requires you to have looms. Therefore the grind in cRPG for looms is the same to me as having to chase 'new' gear and levels in MMORPG's.

Of course not having looms compared to everyone else having looms reduces the fun you have while playing. Surely needing 4-5 hits to kill everyone while they need 2-3 for you gets on your nerves at some point, don't you think?

Looms are not customization, they are simply bonuses. I would be fine if looms provided trade offs, if you like to have a fast spear with lower damage, go ahead. It is the absolute advantage they offer you because you are willing to grind, which is stupid game design in my opinion.

Put yourself in the shoes of a new player. You come into a game where you have a huge skill disadvantage with an enormous learning curve, on top of that there is also people who have a level 33-35 character and full sets of looms. A quick calculation tells me that to retire 9 times, which gets you 3 masterworks, and to get to level 33, you need to play about 850 hours. 850 hours to get at a somewhat level playing field with the established playerbase. Tell me with a straight face that is not stupid and disheartening?

[rufio]

just remove looms, and set lvl cap to 31. make teeth happy plz now dev team, stop work on new game, crpg needs revamp, it sux sobad right naow!!!!!

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[Falka]

A quick calculation tells me that to retire 9 times, which gets you 3 masterworks,

To get 3 mw items you need to retire "only" 6 times, like it or not, but currently marketplace is part of the game. Maybe you're right that better game design would be customizable - not upgraded - items, but for crpg removing looms means instant death. There are too many ppl who keep playing mostly because of looms. So this discussion is an entirely pointless waste of time.

[Kafein]

Part of the cRPG content is also competitivity, which looms obstruct. To be able to experience the full content of cRPG, you need to be able to compete, which requires you to have looms. Therefore the grind in cRPG for looms is the same to me as having to chase 'new' gear and levels in MMORPG's.

Of course not having looms compared to everyone else having looms reduces the fun you have while playing. Surely needing 4-5 hits to kill everyone while they need 2-3 for you gets on your nerves at some point, don't you think?

Looms are not customization, they are simply bonuses. I would be fine if looms provided trade offs, if you like to have a fast spear with lower damage, go ahead. It is the absolute advantage they offer you because you are willing to grind, which is stupid game design in my opinion.

Put yourself in the shoes of a new player. You come into a game where you have a huge skill disadvantage with an enormous learning curve, on top of that there is also people who have a level 33-35 character and full sets of looms. A quick calculation tells me that to retire 9 times, which gets you 3 masterworks, and to get to level 33, you need to play about 850 hours. 850 hours to get at a somewhat level playing field with the established playerbase. Tell me with a straight face that is not stupid and disheartening?

Even more disheartening is installing a competitive arcade MP game and realise the game is so warped around competition and nothing else, you won't be able to compete with any serious player because you haven't been playing that same game during the last decade. This is virtually the same as a grind barrier, and if anything worse because new players cannot attribute their failures on anything but a lack of skill, which like it or not will not please them. The good way to attract new players is either to minimize the influence of skill in the game (okay, this isn't the good way), or to de-emphazise competitiveness. If the only way of having fun in the game is to win, the game is at any time a failure for half the players (also this is why the multiplier is a horrible feature). Encourage veteran players to do goofy, ineffective, impressive etc. stuff rather than utterly destroy the newcomers. Such a feat is difficult to accomplish (hardly any game I know pulled that off). But maybe some kind of acheivement-ish status for self-nerfing would do.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

i started when people were at level 45, there were full plate archers and sword of cookies, people had over 200 wpf and i stuck in there. I wanted to be one of them and work my way there. I didnt bitch out the game and whine. stop wanting to downgrade and the dumb the game down

Newbes will be newbes. Even if they had as many looms as the random crpg veteran, they would still go aroung with two shields and in samurai gear. The game is alive after all this time, not like it really needed a complete overhaul

[zagibu]

What would happen if looms were removed:

- Nobody would retire anymore, making it harder for new players, not easier
- Those who whine about how much an effect looms have would see that they were wrong

[dreadnok]

Sure make it easier. They did with kick and 2h blocking

[Oberyn]

Recently rolled an alt polearmer using ashwood pike, no looms or extra gold, just straight lvling as if I had just started playing. Once you get past 25 or so you are competitive. If you are a bad player, looms won't help. If you are a good player, you can be good without looms. Skill is still the most important factor, as it's always been.

[Necrorave]

Ps :go play age of chivalry...

If you guys really want it so everyone is the same, then just go play Native.  Duh

Crpg community surprises me in how silly they are sometimes.

[Teeth]

If you guys really want it so everyone is the same, then just go play Native.  Duh

Crpg community surprises me in how silly they are sometimes.

Because Native with looms and levels is the same thing as cRPG, yeah, good point.

[Kafein]

Because Native with looms and levels is the same thing as cRPG, yeah, good point.

Not in its current state. When I started playing, it totally was. I had much fun fighting those level 40 plate monsters as if they were bosses in some kind of weird 3D action game.

[Son Of Odin]

[[ptx]]

What would happen if looms were removed:

- Nobody would retire anymore, making it harder for new players, not easier

Don't much care about the rest of this thread, but... what? How? The highest level character right now, one that hasnt retired ever, is like lvl35? How much of an advantage does that level grant? Maybe take one additional hit or move slightly faster...

If the same person had been retiring, he would be clad in a full +3 armor/weapon set, that gives him

*significant armor bonus, making it much harder for others to even hurt him and then he takes less damage anyway
*significant damage bonus, making it easier (depending on weapon) to hurt others

The armor part is really the most important, its why almost everyone is a bloody tank nowadays, high str builds rule and newbies complain about dying in one hit, whilst it takes them 5+ to kill others.

[Kafein]

Don't much care about the rest of this thread, but... what? How? The highest level character right now, one that hasnt retired ever, is like lvl35? How much of an advantage does that level grant? Maybe take one additional hit or move slightly faster...

If the same person had been retiring, he would be clad in a full +3 armor/weapon set, that gives him

*significant armor bonus, making it much harder for others to even hurt him and then he takes less damage anyway
*significant damage bonus, making it easier (depending on weapon) to hurt others

The armor part is really the most important, its why almost everyone is a bloody tank nowadays, high str builds rule and newbies complain about dying in one hit, whilst it takes them 5+ to kill others.

With the right plan, the difference between 33 and 35 is serious. The difference between 30 and 35 is huge. A level 35 build can break weapons that are already borderline with normal chars. Example are 100+ speed weapons, the lightest shields with 13 shield skill, peasant tier polearms doing ok damage by stacking PS... And I won't even cover ranged. You can do much better than loomed armor + weapon combined with 5 attributes and 5 skills. And if you already have your equipment heirloomed (which is the case for many regulars these days), you don't even need to choose.

Renown whore

[Necrorave]

Because Native with looms and levels is the same thing as cRPG

Who said its the same thing?  You guys are complaining about looms being unbalanced for new players.  If you want items to be the same then just play Native.  This is not a post about levels, its about items.  People who complain because low levels cant do anything have invalid opinions.

good point.

Thanks Teeth,

On another note, I think the whole idea of customizing a weapon with "compensations" is a good idea, although if that were the case you might as well let everyone have access to it anytime they want.  Retiring to "Increase speed and decrease damage" seems a bit silly considering all the time you put into it.  People want to be rewarded for their time, not agree to give something up.  They already gave up time for their reward, let them have it.

PS: I have no looms so this is me NOT defending my looms.