The ranking system is too unfriendly to new players

[Malaclypse]

Gotta agree about body (chest, glove) heirlooms as well as dual ranged (due to tandem use of bow/arrows or xbow/bolts), heirlooms being quite a lot better than their unloomed counterparts. Being a high level/multi heirloom character, I support Teeth's suggestion. Either remove heirlooms or lower their benefits to +1 in any given stat total, if anything (either case will likely entail buffing the stock items).

[Vodner]

Personally I've always been in favor of removing looms. That being said, the grind is an enormous part of the game for many players. If they didn't have some sort of goal (other than having fun and getting better) to work towards, then they would likely lose interest.

[mofugga]

Need moar looms! (NA1 last night)

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[obitus]

Looms matter too much.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

   You people are funny, all spitting on looms and stuff in all a big circlejerk about how looms are uncool like hippies protesting against massive corporations. Truth is, looms keeps me going in this game. The only reason why people grind is for looms, not counting on the fact of course getting to a higher level! Because lets face it, why would you retire if there would be no looms?

   I stopped retiring some time ago thinking i was done, too tired of grinding, i had the looms that i wanted...and then i found out some new cool item and/or some cool guy using it , try out the masterwork, and there i went again. retired! And oh boy how i hated the peasent years, i remembered why i didnt want to retire anymore! And trust me, i wouldnt do it again if there were no looms! So why retire then, if you want to change build, you have respec! or just grow to have a high level build?

   And you can try to lie about it, refuse to admit it, but if most of you people are still here, its because of the grind. Do any of you people play world of tanks? wargaming (the people that make that game) have understood very well that griding gets the players hooked to the game, they grind to the biggest tankn what does wargaming do? realse new big shiny tanks, and there goes the grind again!
And this happens here. You can all pat yourself on the back saying : "yea dude, looms are so uncool ban em", but there is a very silent majority out there that thinks : "whatever shut up", and i didnt really feel like breaking your circle of back rubbing but here i am writing a wall of text.
And truth is, i dont know why i am doing so, because you all know that the devs wont do it, but still comes up regurlarly a thread about how we should removes looms, with the same people saying the same stuff "looms uncool man" over again like if it was the first time it was ever mentionned.

Guys, even the devs have given up on this thread....let it die

Looms make my character, my specialisation, my class. You are so against looms but...you can't change class because you have looms? joke?  Some of you have maybe seen me playing, sometimes i use my loomed gears, but sometimes i have javelins, a poleaxe, new pieces of armors, a shield and that stuff is not loomed and i still do good! Looms help but are not that gamebreaking. they are a little extra edge. they are a motivation

The only thing that they do break a bit is for archery and crossbow : you get double ranged damage. In return those classes get nerfed because of the high hitting loomed archers just kicking in the dirt the no loomed archers (that is another problem)

and have you seen how much the game has progressed, we havem mrkets, auctions, booths, we have a fucking economy and that gets people going!

So really if you so against looms, i think we should ban high levels! actually we should just all be level 31!!!11!!! it would only be fair! all those level 35 have better builds then me making them more effective on the battlefield! QQ

Welcome to Communist-rpg

Ps :go play age of chivalry...

Ps 2 : I'll talk to schmako to have you banned from the armory Teeth 

[Kyza]

This isn't about experienced players and looms.  The point is that looms, in my opinion , prevent the player base growing as much as it could.  More players is a better game for all, and the disparity between those players that already have years of mechanics trained is bad enough let alone having a significant equipment advantage too.

You can have grind and balance you know.

[obitus]

Looms are a good idea and should still be used.  The problem is that there is too big of a difference between +3 items and +0 items.

[Sir_Senior_the_Eldest]

Game is getting very hard for beginners as there is a big inflation in gold and loom issues. We shouldn't remove looms as they are, as previously mentioned, a nice longtime goal you can look forward to. But what about adding items who are not that good but look cool/ are a sign of your status and cost some looms. Something like the Saxon Kings helmet from GB
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 (which wouldn't be that safe because of parts of gold but lets others see you are pro)

This is just an example. I definetly don't want the game to be some kind of fantasy game and maybe this helmet doesn't look good for some of you but I think you got my point.
Use some kind of "badges" to ripp of the loom points of our pro gamers_{with no rl}

[korppis]

I'm against removing looms, but they sure could use some tweaking. Such as inverting the net gain curve. Getting a +0 to +1 should be more important than a +2 to +3.

That's a very good idea. Also why not lower the armor buff slightly so the cumulative difference between fully loomed and non-loomed gear isn't so huge?
What I mean is, instead of always adding armor, maybe something like this ie for body armor:
+1: +2 armor
+2: +1 armor
+3: -5% weight

As for melee weapons, I think the ranks are alright as they are.

[Korgoth]

Just remove looms. What is the point if having them if everyone has them, except the new players who are at a huge skill and level disadvantage anyway. The only thing looms do is restrict us all in what we can play, if I want to play a Spanish buckler man today and a Viking axeman tomorrow. I can't because I need to trade for a few weeks to get the stuff.

Free freedom, remove looms.

Well put your looms in the armoury. You can be a commie if you want.

[Ronin]

Guys, you are playing to wrong mod. There are lots of other warband mods if you want to play a fair game (needless to say more balanced).

[Berserkadin]

Looms had a place in this mod a couple of years ago, but now it doesnt really improve the mod in any way. I play this mod to be able to play my own, customized character.

[Kafein]

   You people are funny, all spitting on looms and stuff in all a big circlejerk about how looms are uncool like hippies protesting against massive corporations. Truth is, looms keeps me going in this game. The only reason why people grind is for looms, not counting on the fact of course getting to a higher level! Because lets face it, why would you retire if there would be no looms?

   I stopped retiring some time ago thinking i was done, too tired of grinding, i had the looms that i wanted...and then i found out some new cool item and/or some cool guy using it , try out the masterwork, and there i went again. retired! And oh boy how i hated the peasent years, i remembered why i didnt want to retire anymore! And trust me, i wouldnt do it again if there were no looms! So why retire then, if you want to change build, you have respec! or just grow to have a high level build?

   And you can try to lie about it, refuse to admit it, but if most of you people are still here, its because of the grind. Do any of you people play world of tanks? wargaming (the people that make that game) have understood very well that griding gets the players hooked to the game, they grind to the biggest tankn what does wargaming do? realse new big shiny tanks, and there goes the grind again!
And this happens here. You can all pat yourself on the back saying : "yea dude, looms are so uncool ban em", but there is a very silent majority out there that thinks : "whatever shut up", and i didnt really feel like breaking your circle of back rubbing but here i am writing a wall of text.
And truth is, i dont know why i am doing so, because you all know that the devs wont do it, but still comes up regurlarly a thread about how we should removes looms, with the same people saying the same stuff "looms uncool man" over again like if it was the first time it was ever mentionned.

Guys, even the devs have given up on this thread....let it die

Looms make my character, my specialisation, my class. You are so against looms but...you can't change class because you have looms? joke?  Some of you have maybe seen me playing, sometimes i use my loomed gears, but sometimes i have javelins, a poleaxe, new pieces of armors, a shield and that stuff is not loomed and i still do good! Looms help but are not that gamebreaking. they are a little extra edge. they are a motivation

The only thing that they do break a bit is for archery and crossbow : you get double ranged damage. In return those classes get nerfed because of the high hitting loomed archers just kicking in the dirt the no loomed archers (that is another problem)

and have you seen how much the game has progressed, we havem mrkets, auctions, booths, we have a fucking economy and that gets people going!

So really if you so against looms, i think we should ban high levels! actually we should just all be level 31!!!11!!! it would only be fair! all those level 35 have better builds then me making them more effective on the battlefield! QQ

Welcome to Communist-rpg

Ps :go play age of chivalry...

Ps 2 : I'll talk to schmako to have you banned from the armory Teeth 

This. Grind with diminishing returns is the way to go. Even better, polynomial xp curve and logarithmic returns.

Also, the grind should never stop. Otherwise, grinders will stop after reaching the cap because bored, and others will cry rivers until they reach the cap, then complain that it was unnecessary.

You can have infinite grind without unbalancing the game towards high levels because level bonuses can shrink to insignificance (at least individually).

[Teeth]

I play cRPG because you can customize builds and because it has better combat system than Native. I am well aware that I am the minority here, but to me acquiring looms is like collecting a 100 flags in Assassin's Creed. Annoying bullshit that other people somehow like which gets in the way of my fun gameplay. Fun gameplay is the only thing that matters. In fact acquiring looms is even worse, because if I do not do it, it will also get in the way of fun gameplay. Pixel awards do just not attract me, the bad thing is that every game has them now and they obstruct gameplay.

My ideal version of cRPG would be a fixed level (like 30 or 35) character and no looms, which you can respec at will. No grind, because good games have gameplay that is interesting enough to keep you playing, without a pixel pat on the back. That is why old games are usually better, because they still agreed with me back then. Warband has good enough gameplay to entertain me.

And don't give me that retard argument that looms do not make a difference. A 27b blunt Military Hammer gets 30b when +3. That is an 11% damage increase, even more when accounting for the way that armor effects scale. That is an 11% offensive bonus, and that is just one item and not even talking about the increased weight it also gets. +10 body armor without any disadvantages is a huge deal as well. Sure you can do good without looms, but if I can top the scoreboard with a cudgel, does that make it as fun or fair as using a NCS?

And yes I have played World of Tanks, agonizing grind which makes me stick to some tier 2, maybe 3 tank that I max out, because I can't be arsed to do the process again and again. Having shit gameplay for hours because some stupid retards can't enjoy the game unless someone keeps dangling a carrot in front of them.

Just the term 'grinding' itself, I can't believe people actually see that as something positive these days.

[Phew]

There is no "grind" in crpg. There is nothing you "have" to do that isn't fun that's required to actually have fun in a different phase of the game. MMORPGs are a grind because you have to do stupid quests/crafting/other boring crap to have the gear you need to actually have fun in dungeons/raids/whatever. Then they release expansions that make old gear/max level obsolete, so you have to keep chasing the "new" gear/levels just to experience the content. CRPG is just fighting people (that's the content), which you get to experience regardless of level/gear. Don't like being a peasant? Skip The Fun or don't retire.

It's not like it's less fun to fight people if you don't have looms; the combat mechanics are the same. Looms just let you make more mistakes and still win. A peasant with no looms can beat anyone if they don't make mistakes.

Looms are part of the customization process, and that's the appeal for people. Obtaining the +3 item you want is no different than achieving the riding or power strike or athletics you desire in your build.