the New tyranny of NA :evil:

[partyboy]

You talking about that classical/smooth blow up?

Never heard about that, but I have heard of some rather shitty "THIS IS YOU IRL" shit.

No. He is talking about the Coy/Alkonai blow up.

I'm not going to name names, but the fact there's a few to choose from says a lot.  I'm talking about a nude image of a female player, where we had everything from people going around to different teamspeaks and spamming the link in chat, to bartering over forum PMs offering ingame items for it.

[Lt_Anders]

I don't know, there were probably quite a few people who initially tried crpg but were turned off by the unregulated chat going on.  Back in the fall 2010, weeknights on the NA community servers were pretty bad.

I think we had more people leave from Donkleaps's Heavy chat regulation than from chat crazyness/sexisim/etc etc....

I'm not going to name names, but the fact there's a few to choose from says a lot.  I'm talking about a nude image of a female player, where we had everything from people going around to different teamspeaks and spamming the link in chat, to bartering over forum PMs offering ingame items for it.

That's forum related and TS related, not IN GAME related.
It's also a very shitty thing to do but...that's not this discussion.

Now if you could do something like spam pictures over chat....my god, I'd be banning people non stop!

[Sandersson Jankins]

This statement and analogy is so fucking stupid I don't even know where to start.

Privilege: the thread

Believe it or not, I will actually admit that I have "white privilege"

I'm a white kid. Someone isn't going to look at me and assume "damn I bet that guy's gonna break into my car while I'm not looking" because I'm black.

They're not going to look at me and assume "damn I bet he works landscaping for under-the-table pay and has 6 kids" because I'm hispanic. (fun fact, I have worked landscaping for under-the-table pay for a while)

I admit and understand this. As much as I am loathe to admit it, white/straight privilege is a real thing; albeit not as all-encompassing and dire as many claim.

I'm gonna tell you guys a story. I've been a nerd on the internet since I was about 10 years old. I played a game called Day of Defeat:Source and was a real turbonerd there, much like here. I played with the same folks for 3 or so years, and the summer I graduated high-school, I drove up to Ohio and hung out with a lot of them. Little did I know, someone who drove from Kansas to hang out as well informed all of them that me and my buddy I drove up with were a gay couple. I didn't figure this out until afterwards, and only then because he directly told me.

Guess what?

I couldn't tell when I was there because nobody treated us any differently. They didn't give a single fuck. These were mostly straight, white males and females.

There isn't some nerd conspiracy in which folks wish to push out those different than them.

Nerd edit: It's really fucking silly to dick-wave over who has more privilege. We're all members of the first-world and thusly ooze privilege from every pore of our body. Arguing over who is privileged or not is like saying "I'm worth more as a human being because I didn't have the fortune to be born as X or Y"

Unless you were born in Sarejevo during intense conflict, grew up in the Sudan in the middle of warlords dick-slapping one another, Eastern Europe while thugs raided your neighbors apartments for anything of value, or some other unfortunate shit-hole, you've got no right to speak of privilege, imo.

[partyboy]

TL;DR:

"But you see, I don't even mean 'homosexual' when I say it, so it's not a bad thing.  No, I'm not going to just say what I actually mean, my right to be intellectually lazy comes before someone else's desire to feel safe in their environment."

[partyboy]

I think we had more people leave from Donkleaps's Heavy chat regulation than from chat crazyness/sexisim/etc etc....

That's forum related and TS related, not IN GAME related.
It's also a very shitty thing to do but...that's not this discussion.

Now if you could do something like spam pictures over chat....my god, I'd be banning people non stop!

As I am not currently an admin I have never been discussing ingame rules, just my opinions regarding gamer privilege and this community specifically.

[Shik]

What I was saying that being a "nerd" is somehow exclusive to white people and thus equivalent to racism is the most bold-faced lie I've ever seen.
@aiyasha - fyi, there is an entire race of people that is discriminated against as "bookish" and guess what - its not white people

[Lt_Anders]

TL;DR:

"But you see, I don't even mean 'homosexual' when I say it, so it's not a bad thing.  No, I'm not going to just say what I actually mean, my right to be intellectually lazy comes before someone else's desire to feel safe in their environment."

Safe is relative. In all honesty, your are not safe where you live, right now. Or where you work, etc etc. We as humans, assume a false sense of security from the laws and institutions we have put into place. While they might provide general safety, deterrence and other factors, it doesn't guarantee individual safety, but we as humans believe that the cost of the deterrence outweighs the cost to commit an injustice.

It's pretty intersting if you look it up. Security from government(which is what we, as humans, create) isn't true security, but a feeling of security.

IN no way does this have to do with this discussion, but that statement brought it to my head.

As I am not currently an admin I have never been discussing ingame rules, just my opinions regarding gamer privilege and this community specifically.

But that's what this thread is about. IN GAME. As much as we could argue about shit like that here, the vast majority of players only go to the website for gear and character and only play the game. Few come onto forums and get pulled into this shitstorm that's the forums.

What I was saying that being a "nerd" is somehow exclusive to white people and thus equivalent to racism is the most bold-faced lie I've ever seen.
@aiyasha - fyi, there is an entire race of people that is discriminated against as "bookish" and guess what - its not white people

You can say that about any race. I asume you don't live in the sourthern US shik. Come down here sometime, you'll love it for the amount of Derogatory terms you can find for all races.
(and for the record, stereotypes are derogatory which is what you're meaning.)

[Aiyasha]

What I was saying that being a "nerd" is somehow exclusive to white people and thus equivalent to racism is the most bold-faced lie I've ever seen.

This was never the argument. Partyboy claimed that the words we're discussing were problems because there were people that were traumatized by them as children. Sandersson posted an analogy of someone who was traumatized as a child by being called a nerd (and I don't know how old you are, but I assume old enough to remember when 'nerd' was a bad thing) and yet nobody is getting banned for using a word like that, and the only explanation I can come up with is because it's not used to describe a minority race or an oppressed sexuality.

If somebody would like to throw out an explanation why some words are more fine than others, I'm all ears.

[oprah_winfrey]

What I was saying that being a "nerd" is somehow exclusive to white people and thus equivalent to racism is the most bold-faced lie I've ever seen.
@aiyasha - fyi, there is an entire race of people that is discriminated against as "bookish" and guess what - its not white people

I think aiyasha's point is that different words effect people differently. Calling someone a bundle of sticks, nerd, chink, slut, etc. can all have the same effect on different people. If you are going to ban someone for saying one (some) of these things, you should be banning them for all of them.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Something that would solve the issue with the least headache (although I think it'd be the lamest thing there could be) is either

a) Instead of the "no offensive shit" rule, which is entirely subjective, make a list of banned words. The rules can then be applied evenly between all admins. It's really stupid that I can say "dayum nigga" when certain admins are on, but not others.
b) Make a chat filter, and ban people for evading the chat filter.

[BADPLAYER_old2]

This was never the argument. Partyboy claimed that the words we're discussing were problems because there were people that were traumatized by them as children. Sandersson posted an analogy of someone who was traumatized as a child by being called a nerd (and I don't know how old you are, but I assume old enough to remember when 'nerd' was a bad thing) and yet nobody is getting banned for using a word like that, and the only explanation I can come up with is because it's not used to describe a minority race or an oppressed sexuality.

If somebody would like to throw out an explanation why some words are more fine than others, I'm all ears.

Because  "friend" and "chink" are both racial slurs, created by white people, in order to oppress minority's. The context is important. Why do you even want to use those words anyways, those words have very different meanings and cultural connotations to the Asian/Black community. There is no way that a white person could say those words and not be racist.

And it's the same with "bundle of sticks" and homophobia too.

[partyboy]

This was never the argument. Partyboy claimed that the words we're discussing were problems because there were people that were traumatized by them as children. Sandersson posted an analogy of someone who was traumatized as a child by being called a nerd (and I don't know how old you are, but I assume old enough to remember when 'nerd' was a bad thing) and yet nobody is getting banned for using a word like that, and the only explanation I can come up with is because it's not used to describe a minority race or an oppressed sexuality.

If somebody would like to throw out an explanation why some words are more fine than others, I'm all ears.

While being traumatized as a child is part of it, I was more trying to conjure up an image of a lifetime of assault on one's identity that you could understand.

[partyboy]

Something that would solve the issue with the least headache (although I think it'd be the lamest thing there could be) is either

a) Instead of the "no offensive shit" rule, which is entirely subjective, make a list of banned words. The rules can then be applied evenly between all admins. It's really stupid that I can say "dayum nigga" when certain admins are on, but not others.
b) Make a chat filter, and ban people for evading the chat filter.

Perhaps a general rule of treating others with respect, whether directly or indirectly.

[Aiyasha]

Because  "friend" and "chink" are both racial slurs, created by white people, in order to oppress minority's. The context is important. Why do you even want to use those words anyways, those words have very different meanings and cultural connotations to the Asian/Black community. There is no way that a white person could say those words and not be racist.

And it's the same with "bundle of sticks" and homophobia too.

friend and chink were not words that were created to be offensive, they were words that took on an offensive connotation over time, and now people have decided that instead of helping society to come to terms with these words actual definitions, we've banned them and thus created resentment.

Unless you're really under the impression that Huckleberry Finn was white propaganda.

[Soldier_of_God]

if ya'll dont want to be trolled on the internet, go watch cailou or something. i mean, do you really think people read the shit they see in game and their mascara starts running? racism, yeah, should'nt be there.

The word my old friend is an ambiguous term. calling someone a my old friend really is an expression of feeling cheated by someone, and therefore calling them a cheat, specifically that they cheated you with less than applaudable behavior. same as saying something is gay. I sincerely believe that 99% of the time, this word or related words are not used to denounce someones sexual orientation, and if it were, im sure 99% of the time it would be reported to an admin, and 99% of the time those 1% would be muted or banned and punished accordingly.

for instance, in battle, Hospitaller_Jeff_of_Canada called someone a my old friend, not to long before this post.  insta-muted for a 2 word sentence. no warning, no trial, just Judge, Jury and Executioner guillotines falling down on a otherwise normal person.

case in point: an admins job is to promote order, rule following, and insure everyone enjoys the game, not to filter language. if that language offends, it is then the admin's job to stop the "offensive" behavior. language is only offensive if it is seen as such.

to play devil's advocate, i could say "well, n-word isnt bad, because people use it all the time in jest, or greeting." tell me, how often does anyone call someone a n word as a term of affection, other than someone who is black? never.

how often is my old friend used by someone who isnt gay as a term of... well as a jocular term? all the time. people say things are gay all the time.

so if you're appalled at my lack of respect for the lgbt community, its time to go watch some fucking cailou you my old friend.
*note: no homophobic reference intended.

p.s. my aunt was a lesbian. she used/uses the term all the time in a non-discriminatory manner