By nerfing archery you are breaking the game (+ solution for kiting)

[Kafein]

Well that is a nice way of excusing them for their behavior, but it doesn't fit observed facts.

Fact: Teams at end round tonight was 1 HX on one side, several melee with spears/2handers, etc and a foot archer and foot xbow. Did the melee stand guard over the xbow while it was reloading to shoot the HX down? Where they perhaps guarding the archer so he didn't get bumped to death? Oh hell no, they were running around in circles 50 feet away from their ranged trying to chase the HX while on foot! This went on for at least 2 minutes, even after the xbow was asking for them to protect him so he could reload and shoot the bastard's horse down. All the while the HX kept shooting and bumping the archer and xbow.

Sound like fun? No, of course it wasn't. But rather than a discussion of how the melee needed to use actual teamplay and tactics, the discussion turned to how the HX should be nerfed 

I see that happening too (I stand next to our last ranged if any when there only are mounted ranged left in the enemy team). But usually it doesn't make any difference. Unless there only are a few of us and nobody has a lot of armor on, one HA/HX isn't going to win. The only thing that player is going to acheive is wasting everybody's time by "playing his class". But that's more of a battle mode problem.

[Butan]

they were running around in circles 50 feet away from their ranged trying to chase the HX while on foot! This went on for at least 2 minutes, even after the xbow was asking for them to protect him so he could reload and shoot the bastard's horse down.
[...]
But rather than a discussion of how the melee needed to use actual teamplay and tactics, the discussion turned to how the HX should be nerfed

The situation you describe should not start a debate on teamplay/tactics, nor HX nerf/buff; it should create a topic that would have this title:

The ravage of alcohol and drugs on the cRPG playerbase

[dreadnok]

soo a great melee combat game will be ruined because archery is broken? makes total sense

[Riddaren]

A far better solution than the high arrow weight.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

This solves nothing, reminds me of Shiks point about why the ath penalty solved nothing, you don't really need all that crazy amounts of accuracy when you're one of those my old friends like XyNox who basically only shots people at facehug range.
Only two solutions that have ever been suggested work, nerfing sprint speed for people with pd/pt/xbow wpf and then overall increasing sprint speed for everyone else, and increasing the weight. And some dev said the sprint speed thing was impossible/a nightmare to code and not worth the time.
And both of those suggestions don't really work 100% either against individual players, because it takes 0 skill to shot someone at facehug range and then have them either die or just have you running off and taking another shot while they're stunned.

[XyNox]

you don't really need all that crazy amounts of accuracy when you're one of those my old friends like XyNox who basically only shots people at facehug range.

I shoot you at facehug distance because you are trying to facehug me 

Havent seen you on EU4 lately. Where the goat have you been ?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I shoot you at facehug distance because you are trying to facehug me 

Havent seen you on EU4 lately. Where the goat have you been ?

How the hell else should I hit you with my tiny espada?

Playing other games + native + stonethrowing on EU_1 + HTing on EU_1 due to it being buffed insanely there. Also, I do not appreciate replacing the word hell with goat, I'll stab you next time I see you on the server.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Until you put them on a horse.

Which, funnily enough, is the only form of xbower besides an SB my old friend who people complain about.
btw: SB should get permabanned.

[XyNox]

How the hell else should I hit you with my tiny espada?

Playing other games + native + stonethrowing on EU_1 + HTing on EU_1 due to it being buffed insanely there. Also, I do not appreciate replacing the word hell with goat, I'll stab you next time I see you on the server.

Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:

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[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:

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You horrible! HORRIBLE! person.

[Silicium]

Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:

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Mmmm, i might go with you xynox me and lizard love that goat meat.

[Rumblood]

Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:

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You horrible! HORRIBLE! person.

LOL! I plused both 

[Tindel]

Let me share a little story with you.

      It was my first day after retiring to an archer and I had finally managed to get enough powerdraw to use a bow.
I gleefully walked up to the alley my team was defending and positioned myself behind our infantry and was waiting for the enemies to close in.

      After waiting a short period a single two hander approached us, the team decided to charge him so I joined them eager to fight (Shoot).
As soon as we got fairly close I drew my bow ready to shoot, unfortunately was charging to fast. By the time I had by bow almost drawn he had managed to run almost directly into me, I was too slow to run and too weak to fight but I wasn't worried, my team was right there with me

..... And just then my entire team took a few steps back and watched me get slaughtered, then casually resumed stepped back into the fight as nothing had happened.

Like i wrote to Xynox earlier in the thread, this behaviour is a result of how the general population of infantry percieve their ranged teammates.
They feel like prey, and ranged are predators. But when they get a chance for revenge, they take it.

[XyNox]

Maybe everyone would just be happier when there were 6 equally spread spawnpoints on battle instead of 2. One for ranged, one for cav and one for inf for both teams. This way every class can play their own game without getting griefed by their teammates 

[Tindel]

A group of players view this game as a battle simulator with armies composed of alot of "roles" or "classes" and they want to use tactics and formations etc etc.
For this group all different playstyles make sense and fits into the whole, the strive for a percieved "balance" between the different roles and their level of influence on which team wins the round.
Here class balance makes alot of sense because everyone has a role.

And another group of players view this game as a deathmatch game with a fighting system no other game has.
For this group ranged and cav are not only a niusance but also a direct form of griefing against how they think the game is supposed to be played.

This is why these threads always show up. And why they always end up in the same old discussion.

Who has right? Who has wrong?
Does anyone?