By nerfing archery you are breaking the game (+ solution for kiting)

[Nordwolf]

For the first, I'm not archer.

Here's why I think this is very bad:

Seeng this trend of nerfing makes me sad.

Let me explain:
Infantry complains about archery, because it has a great advantage of range and can generete a constant disturb in melee, also they usually notice only those who are really good. There are really not a lot of these very good archers.
Archer is (now I'd say was) a great threat to horsemen, which made them not so powerfull. Now what I see is nerfing cav because there is no counterforce for them - archers.
Really, there is just a loop of nerfing archers>>horsemen>>archers>>>horsemen untill there are just melee players (and crossbowmen. But when there would be no normal archers or cav, all complains will be turned to them). And this loop is constantly being fed by majority of players - melee ones.
Yeah, for some people that would be nice, "Just melee", but don't you think this would ruin the whole point of the game?


Ok, let's get the point of archery. One of the greatest things about it is that it can quickly relocate on the battlefield making the battle. What was the problem? Kiting. But do you really think that this was so much worth destroying a whole class?
That what archer is all about, being able to shoot and quickly relocate.

Solution I came up with:
Remove all that weight from arrows and add decreasing accuracy after running. Severe and not too short.

Here's an example: You are an archer, shooting normally while strafing, but when you're starting to run for more that for e.g. 3 seconds in 10 seconds time (also accounting distance traveled in relation to previous position) you get a severe accuracy decrease with a cooldown 5-6 seconds. So to shoot normally again, you need to stop, and wait a bit. It would almost completely remove kiting in any time of the game - mid - end whatever and it's also completely normal for archer to look around when relocated (I mean, this is also even judged mentally).

So... consider this. I hope it isn't that hard with WSE.

[Kafein]

There's this thing confusing me, sometimes people say cav counters archers, sometimes they say archery counters cav.

I like what they do in Arma games. After running, you need to catch your breath and wait before shooting, otherwise your accuracy will be shit.

[Miwiw]

Currently there are so many shielders on EU1. I don't really get why cavalry bumps got nerfed so heavy now, as they are a great counter to infantry while many of them are having a shield. Cav bumps, Archer shoots, good thing.

People are ignorant. They want stuff to be nerfed or removed, anything that could disturb their "fun", playstyle or kill them.

Imo native had a rather perfect solution. Of course I agree that Archery is obviously overpowered in native, however native Archers also got some good melee stats and are able to beat infantry as well. It's mostly down to skill there. In cRPG Archers often tend to get near to no melee skills which I see as bad. I had one Archer gen without any PS/wpf and hated it, useless being, running when being engaged cause only having a small hammer that doesnt cause any real dmg, is not fun!
As Archer with melee skill it is more fun to play, though on level 30 you must sacrifice some archery accuracy/dmg to get the melee skills, while any infantry will have more PS or wpf usually and therefore (if skilllevel is similar) will have an easy time to win. I would never demand, giving Archers similar melee stats as Infantry is able to get  though(that would mean double stat points for Archers which is obviously not a way to go ;) ).

You got some good points.

Archers counter infantry, if infantry is slow and got no shields. Archers counters Infantry with shields, if there are more Archers.
Archers counter cavalry if there are more Archers.
Cavalry counters Archers if there are more or a similar amount of cavalry.
Infantry counter both of them, if they got teamplay. They got a hard time if Archers are constantly kiting and Cav running away.
Anyway it usually depends on the players and their playstyle, so its often hard to say who actually counters whom.
But its actually Archers -> Cav -> Inf -> Archers -> Cav

[Nordwolf]

There's this thing confusing me, sometimes people say cav counters archers, sometimes they say archery counters cav.

I like what they do in Arma games. After running, you need to catch your breath and wait before shooting, otherwise your accuracy will be shit.

About couterpart:

Cav does counter archers... but almost in the same way as they do with infantry - by being unexpected. It is (was) not that easy to counter even one archer if he is aware of you.
I'm not talking about teamplay ofcourse, group of archers counter cav, group of cav is better countered by infantry than archers, but when would you see such teamplay?

[XyNox]

About the counterpart:

Cav can counter archers as well as archers can counter cav.

Buying a horse without knowing what you are doing will be a birthday present for archers as cav cant strafe that fast and have quite smooth movements, which in turn makes it easier to shoot them. Cav who charge archers straight ahead in the beginning of the round without a shield are rather easy to deal with. If you miss however, even a nub can easily oneshot you as you cant dodge with 30+ kg of equipment.

If cav has a brain however and simply waits till the archer has to shoot incoming enemies and simply enganges from behind it pretty much becomes a hardcounter against archers. Since an archer cant shoot in 2 directions simultaniously, cant stagger/stop cav, cant outrun cav, cant dodge cav and has to remain stationary to shoot, cav timing their attacks with inf is actually archer-autokill since they die in one hit and cant block with a bow.

Also, if archers are by their own, lancers can hardcounter them given they are very manouverable. Given the right build, an arabian can bump me, turn around and bump me again before I are able to release an arrow, which leaves me with my melee weapon. Since 0 or 1 slots are the weapons of choice for archers, outranging me with a 180ish lenght lance is easy game for them. If I dont block i get lanced, if I block I get bumped, which is also enough to kill an archer in a few runs.

Usually the answer to all this would be teamplay but hell, we all know it doesnt happen. Even if the enemy has 4 horseranged and I am the only ranged in my team I dont get any support. Needless to say, melees still complain in end that horse ranged is gay because they cant kill them. Sticking with your team is also not always possible as for every 2 seconds you have to stop to take a shot, your team already has traveled another 10 meters that you can hardly catch up because of the weight nerf.

I can only repeat what I said so far on this matter:

Revert the weight nerf. Unfuck general mobility for archers and come up with a system that punishes kiters for archery-related things such as equipping/drawing/shooting a bow instead of a general slow down so archers can once again dodge and fight against cav/inf.

[Dolphin]

Anyone remember back when we had Plated longbowmen with, glaives and longspears ? (fun days right)

I can see the movement nerf is a bitch, but tbh having to look at the arse of a archer that keeps running out of range and turning around and shoot you till you die is worse.
Archers are able to make melee/archer hybrids and its just been buffed with this latest patch... (the shitload of 0 slot one handed swords, is totally meant for polearms right?)
Yes my main is not a archer but i tend to create a STF with 18/21 and get 3-4 PS 150wpf in archery and rest in one handed and then dominate the battlefield.
You can kite plates as it is now, anything with 6 or less athletics will not be able to keep up with you if you got 7 athletics.
Camp "Unreachable"/hard to reach spots with your long bow and create a killzone. (works and you know it xynox )

But one thing i dont want to hear is that archers cant melee, cause we fucking can if just put 120 wpf points in one handed, they are fucking fast and will be the same speed as a polaxer or two hander.
Your cant rely on your team either normally teams are at the same numbers and if your team got archers and the opponent doesnt your infantry will be facing more then one person at a time they wont have time to save you.

And Xynox question wouldnt you be pissed if you had to stand on the spot for 2 seconds before you would be able to hit anything after moving a few steps ?
and didnt i just see you dodge riddarens lance a few times on EU 4 1 hour ago when i tried to rush you with my STF shield(which failed...).

[XyNox]

Usually riddaren 1 shots me with his lance because there is absolutely no way to dodge it when I have my bow equipped. I get really lucky if this not the case. He also only attacks me when I am engaged otherwise so it sets me into a lose/lose situation.

As for the running part, keep in mind that I have 24 agi and 8 ath, still your medium armored main does not seem to be any slower than me.

Also, I dont really understand the "stand on the spot" thing. The need to remain statoinary while drawing your bow for better accuracy has already been implemented in the last nerf. Of course I would despise anything that nerfs mobility any further.

[Adamar]

Archers are able to make melee/archer hybrids and its just been buffed with this latest patch... (the shitload of 0 slot one handed swords, is totally meant for polearms right?)

Arrow weight has been increased, and those new 0 slot weapons have weight too. Short swords dont really help if your slow motion footwork doesn't let you touch the enemy.

[Dolphin]

missed the spathion becoming 1 slot again. (silly me i have been using short falcion it weighs 1)
Still drop your bow its not like i am going to steal it got no PD and gain your speed

My main cant catch up to you xynox, but yes its around as fast. (24/18 total equipment weight of 22,4)

Stand on the spot thing: Nordwolf suggests instead of weight to stop kiting, archers should be imobilised to shoot i can in no way see that to be any good or even by any far shoot better.

but xynox its not like you aint killing me with ease if i run at you (boom headshot)

[Kamirane]

I totally agree with Nordwolf and NyNox. And its not because i am Archer. I also have Alts in every Class.

[Rumblood]

Still drop your bow its not like i am going to steal it got no PD and gain your speed

Drop your shield.

Those statements make about as much sense as the other 

[Nordwolf]

Stand on the spot thing: Nordwolf suggests instead of weight to stop kiting, archers should be imobilised to shoot i can in no way see that to be any good or even by any far shoot better.

While waiting for cooldown you should still be able to strafe/move a short distance.

[Overdriven]

Cooldown sounds like a good idea instead of weight. Archers should be able to put up a fight in melee as well of course and currently the weight hampers that.

[Leesin]

Nerf archers again I say.

[LordLargos]

Cav counters archers by slicing their head off when they're are not looking and archers counter cav by doing significant damage to horses and unsuspecting riders.

As for the arma aspect to running and shooting I support the cooldown the only thing I have against removing the weight is archers running away for long periods of time.