Upkeep Test for chad with evidence, mathematic : that is not an opinion !

[Vicious666]

Since talk is useless, whine is useless, cry is useless.
since i was a scripter for ultima online for 5 year, and balanced a lot of pvp for many  servers.
here are  EVIDENCE, MATHEMATICS, not questionable, not  passible by interpretation     or opinions.


TEST ON 15 ROUNDS:


when i have time i will post a  test based on 100 rounds, since win or lose, or get on the winning side is lucky,    and more high are the numbers more precise is the statistic.

but even considering a high round average lest say 3x, so 150g  for average round of 4 min,            is 600g x 15 =   9k gold,     (and we are talking about 15x round at  3x     so 150gx )      where even the upkeep for  a 9k worth of equip is 6k,  so only 3k gain,           that means if you go at  15k worth of equip,       even at  sooooooo generous winning strike of 15x  rounds     at 3x,      you lose money.

EQUIPMENT :  total cost    9145


scimitar (simple one)           cost : 3380
sarranid padded vest          cost : 975
leather gloves                    cost : 202
rabati (a helm )                 cost : 1219
norman shield                   cost : 3226
khergit leather boots         cost : 143



ROUNDS X 15 MONEY GAINED :

ROUND 1 :    50G X 5 MIN = 250 G
ROUND 2 :    50G  X 4 MIN = 200 G
ROUND 3 :  100G X 5MIN = 500 G
ROUND 4 :  50G  X 4 MIN = 200 G
ROUND 5 : 50G X 4 MIN = 200 G
ROUND 6 : 50G X 6 MIN = 300 G
ROUND 7 : 100 G X 5 MIN = 500 G
ROUND  8 : 150G X 4 MIN = 600 G
ROUND 9 : 50 G X 6 MIN = 300 G
ROUND 10 : 100G X 4 MIN = 400 G
ROUND 11 : 50G X 4 MIN = 200 G
ROUND 12 : 50G X 5 MIN = 250 G
ROUND 13 : 100G X 4 MIN = 400 G
ROUND 14 150G X 3 MIN = 450G
ROUND 15  200G X 5 MIN = 1000 G


TOTAL  G EARNED IN 15 ROUNDS :  5750  G

TOTAL  G LOOSED IN 15 ROUNDS  5933

SCIMITAR                 repair cost  676     X4
NORMAN SHIELD       repair cost 645    X3
SARRANID PADDED  VEST  repair cost 195   X3
LEATHER BOOTS      repair cost  28         X2
LEATHER GLOVES    repair cost  57         X4
RABATI      (HELM )  repair cost  24  x 2










this is proofed         and tested


cant even upkeep  a 9k equip lol

with average lucky on  team winning.











another things to balance that is not an opinion but is mathematic.

upkeep between   1h and 2h   are not even.

2 hander top sword (rarely used,   cost 15450,  but most used are cookies and  tear 11,6 and 12k,   i now name are changed ... )
1 hander top sword  (most used    cost 8/9k ,  long espada eslavona.    side sword     )         point is   1h not cost  50% of 2h,       but almost  85% of the cost of a 2h,  if you add to this the  shield,       most common =     huscarl    is another 6k,           upping the cost for the average   1h+shield to   15k+.

if you wanna use top       vs top equip,

is  15450  flamberge  vs          8922 (side sword) + 10422  (steel shield)         19344            THAT SEAMS EVEN,     (that is not for sure since 90% of 2hnaders use 11k-12k sword so difference is   7K+,           if you consider that  more items means more % to pay upkeep.   is again uneven     )





the new formula,    add more % to have a broken item even at winning side, that  make shielders         upkeep more than 2handers. withouth consider that  changing from 3 to 4%     is a 33% increase,          upkeep from 20  to 5  is a -75%   but with       upkeep every round is a +100%        so  upkeep now is the same of previous at 66%   

[Kocik_4th]

They won't understand it cuz they're kings.  It's only made by complexes against tincans.

ITS NOT HARD TO SEE. CHECK REPAIR POLL AND %50+ SAYS   "REPAIR SUX"

[The_Bloody_Nine]

In one or two weeks, one (perhaps myself) will make a second Repair poll. LETS SEE WHAT THEY WILL VOTE THEN!

[chadz]

What is this supposed to be?

Tell me, what is the average gold you can upkeep with 0.201, assuming you have a multiplicator of 1 all the time? No examples, mathematics. I know the value, do you?

(keep it short)

[Tristan]

I can upkeep 25k no problem and still make lots of money.

Increase upkeep!

edit: oh.. 30+ eq and no problem making upkeep.

[DrKronic]

Actually me being an electrical engineer with a masters focus on statistics for manufacturing I.E LEAN SIX SIGMA, probability your equation on 2h vs 1h leaves out very simple fact. It is highly improbable that the shield and sword both break each time simultaneously. On the other hand the 2h sword or for that matter any twice as expensive item will tend to cost u more upkeep because there is no such thing as a half repair or half break

I also contend that mathematics is a very debatable science what form of statistical test are you using I.e one sided z etc

Also to what degree of accuracy do you expect to attain with such a small sample size

Unfortunately to really judge this we need a large sample size and also we will need you to establish controls

Example we need to determine if in those rounds u lost were u trying to actually win or were u so full of rageQQ that u contributed to ur team losing, only after we establish this and more can we truly understand ..statistically what the repair and upkeep really does and get closer to finding out the average upkeepable equipment

[Ujin]

Upkeep is fine atm imo.

[Vicious666]

What is this supposed to be?

Tell me, what is the average gold you can upkeep with 0.201, assuming you have a multiplicator of 1 all the time? No examples, mathematics. I know the value, do you?

(keep it short)

sorry chadz what you not get in this? that a 9k  user      is losing money instead making anything?            is only based on the lucky of the teams even .


potentially you cant upkeep even a 5k   equipment if you get all bad rounds.       



and what you means with    average gold you can upkeep ?       if i have 200k and wear 9k of stuff, i am losing slowly gold,     what matters  how much i have in bank ?



over 50% of player of your mod say that this system sux, what you wanna elsE?  the mathematic proof that is not sustainable,     also IS BORING, tedious mechanic,        i never remember something like this in all crpg story,    where majority of ppl clearly     not wanna one thing     .

[Helrekkr]

Are you people still seriously whining about this ? You can easily upkeep light gear even if you lose most of the time now.
If you go on a win streak you can upkeep plate and still make money.

What do you want ? 10k gold for free at the begining of each round ?

[Ninja_Khorin]

I must've been insanely lucky for earning 60000.
With equipment worth 14 000 about.

[Vicious666]

Actually me being an electrical engineer with a masters focus on statistics for manufacturing I.E LEAN SIX SIGMA, probability your equation on 2h vs 1h leaves out very simple fact. It is highly improbable that the shield and sword both break each time simultaneously. On the other hand the 2h sword or for that matter any twice as expensive item will tend to cost u more upkeep because there is no such thing as a half repair or half break

I also contend that mathematics is a very debatable science what form of statistical test are you using I.e one sided z etc

Also to what degree of accuracy do you expect to attain with such a small sample size

Unfortunately to really judge this we need a large sample size and also we will need you to establish controls

Example we need to determine if in those rounds u lost were u trying to actually win or were u so full of rageQQ that u contributed to ur team losing, only after we establish this and more can we truly understand ..statistically what the repair and upkeep really does and get closer to finding out the average upkeepable equipment

becouse even considering all rounds at 3x     (HIGHLY IMPROBABLE ) you cant upkeep anything over 15k-20k   total worth of equipment

[chadz]

Vicious, you obviously missed the update to 0.201.

Get it, do the math, that fix was done just because of the reason many people disliked the 0.200 version.

(if you don't want to do the math, play for some hours, then report the result)

[Ginosaji]

Since chadz has the possibility to log every damaged item as well as the amount of gold a player earns and since I'm sure that he does log these values, I'm also very confident that he knows very well how long an average 9000G char can maintain his equipment.

Also, this mod is beta! We're all testers, don't forget that. chadz can test as many values and numbers with us as he wants.

[Ujin]

You're doing it wrong.

[Vicious666]

I must've been insanely lucky for earning 60000.
With equipment worth 14 000 about.

thats the point,         is all what crpg reduced  ?  get lucky on         random team balance?               



no skill
no lev difference
no equip






as i say i gonna repost this with 100 or 200     rounds.         for define      what is max you can upkeep and still gaining gold.               at average.     but already  evaluating all rounds at 3x,        you cant upkeep more than a 20k worth of equip.       and hardly you will get a 15x  win strik  of rounds all at 3x