What do you think of the 2 slot xbows change?

[Balikar]

Use Hunting Crossbow. The whole concept of having good ranged and the best melee is absurd anyway

Or Grumbs, you can actually read what was posted before spitting out drivel like the above.  I talked about spec'ing.  If a person specs two weapons, they won't be the 'best' melee, nor ranged.  And in my post I specifically talked about two handers that spec'd into crossbow.  Now you can raise the argument that you don't need to spec at all into crossbow, but the problem there is... That's the actual problem.  ;-)

[Grumbs]

Are you complaining about WPF now, like it matters for melee? I can use a great maul with 1 wpf and still hit stuff, wpf for melee is totally optional. Having 100 or 150 melee weapon is nothing

So you are best of both worlds without this slot tweak since wpf is still not balanced for melee weapons

You can use xbows with 1 wpf too, they are just poorly implemented in general. Slots system is all that they have to balance atm

[Duster]

I think most people are just fine with 2h getting a nerf, however indirect, because they have been so historically untouched.

[Balikar]

Are you complaining about WPF now, like it matters for melee? I can use a great maul with 1 wpf and still hit stuff, wpf for melee is totally optional. Having 100 or 150 melee weapon is nothing

So you are best of both worlds without this slot tweak since wpf is still not balanced for melee weapons

You can use xbows with 1 wpf too, they are just poorly implemented in general. Slots system is all that they have to balance atm

By that logic, all shields should be two slot, and all bows too.  That way archers stay archers, sword and boards stay true, etc etc. 

[Grumbs]

No its about sacrificing one thing for another. You shouldn't have good ranged ability as well as very similar melee ability as a pure melee guys. Thats not balanced. You have to take it on a case by case basis rather than blanket "keep all classes pure". Like for example shielders aren't necessarily unbalanced by allowing them to have a 1 hander as well as a spear. They are still fulfilling a similar role. A bow user can use 1 or 0 slot weapons which give them mediocre melee ability compared to pure melee guys (and tend to use weaker armour). A xbow user doesn't need to sacrifice much at all for his build, it is nearly pure melee and pure ranged so the devs need to limit their capabilities a bit to try to create balance.

Jack of all trades, master of everything doesn't work in games like this. You shouldn't have the best xbows and 2handers/poles with very similar builds/capabilities as pure melee guys

[Balikar]

No its about sacrificing one thing for another. You shouldn't have good ranged ability as well as very similar melee ability as a pure melee guys. Thats not balanced. You have to take it on a case by case basis rather than blanket "keep all classes pure". Like for example shielders aren't necessarily unbalanced by allowing them to have a 1 hander as well as a spear. They are still fulfilling a similar role. A bow user can use 1 or 0 slot weapons which give them mediocre melee ability compared to pure melee guys (and tend to use weaker armour). A xbow user doesn't need to sacrifice much at all for his build, it is nearly pure melee and pure ranged so the devs need to limit their capabilities a bit to try to create balance.

Jack of all trades, master of everything doesn't work in games like this. You shouldn't have the best xbows and 2handers/poles with very similar builds/capabilities as pure melee guys

Ah, but Grumbs, you can have an archer/shielder with:  1 slot bow, 1 slot quiver, 1 slot sword, 1 slot shield.  Afterall, according to you, 100 or 150 wpf doesn't change a thing.

Please note, I'm not disagreeing that crossbows need to be limited.  I simply disagree with the means to limit them.  If you were to attribute WPF checks to equipping the crossbow, versus a slot (ie keep them one slot) then you have limited their ability in the same fashion as you would other weaponry (since now they have to train in it). 

There are already limitations in place otherwise.  Standing very still to load a crossbow, plus the load times are far worse than an archer's.  Couple that with the number of bolts carried...

[Grumbs]

Ah, but Grumbs, you can have an archer/shielder with:  1 slot bow, 1 slot quiver, 1 slot sword, 1 slot shield.  Afterall, according to you, 100 or 150 wpf doesn't change a thing.

To use a bow effectively you need to put at least 4-5 points into powerdraw, and you need points for the shield too for to be useful. WPF is much more necessary than xbows so they can hit accurately. Powerdraw actually reduces your bow WPF per point you add.

Bows are a more constant threat on the battlefield though since they don't have reload time, but xbows hit harder and the projectiles travel faster so are easier to hit with. Bow users get through ammo at a much faster pace than xbows, so 1 quiver affects them more than xbowers. If it were up to me I would limit bows more too because I think its a very lame playstyle in a melee game, especially when the ranged mechanics are so underdeveloped. Crosshairs and fast projectiles just doesn't cut it in this game

I don't think WPF is enough to limit xbows, and I think the slot system is a more elegant way to balance imo. I don't think xbowers should have access to 2 handers/poles at all imo, especially without any sort of powerdraw type skill. Xbows are way too easy to use well for people to use the best melee weapons too

[Tydeus]

Specialization isn't rewarded in crpg(you could say it's actually penalized), even when talking about ranged classes, and there's a really easy way to understand how this could be. It's called skill point conversions and WPF looking like a square root function. To put it simply:

1) You don't gain nearly enough compared to what you lose by converting 6 skill points into three attributes.
2) Currently with 7 WM you can either get 163 wpf in one weapon or you could split and get 150 in your main(archery), and 90 in a secondary(melee).

I hope I wouldn't have to actually explain the skill point one, just look at a 14 point conversion build (I run these all the time) or a 20 point conversion build. They're utterly lacking in effectiveness. Losing roughly 13 wpf in your main weapon to gain 90 in a secondary(crossbows), is getting the best of both worlds. Any denial of this fact could only come from either bias, or ignorance of game mechanics.

[Berserkadin]

2h can still use the hunting crossbow as a sidearm. You have to choose between better melee or better ranged, wich is just fair.

[Kamirane]

Ah, but Grumbs, you can have an archer/shielder with:  1 slot bow, 1 slot quiver, 1 slot sword, 1 slot shield.  Afterall, according to you, 100 or 150 wpf doesn't change a thing.

make an archer as STF and try to shoot with 100 or 150 wpf. u will see a significant difference. Its even a lot of difference 160 to 170.

[CrazyCracka420]

I think it's a good change (as someone who's only alt is a level 30 xbow/2h char).  I really liked being able to take my xbow/steelbolts and a 2h sword, but I think this is a better change for gameplay.  I would either need to be a 1h/xbow user or use a 1 slot 2h (like the mace or some of the 1h/2h weapons like military pick).  I don't think it was "fair" that I was able to pew pew and then whip out my great sword or long sword and be almost as good as a dedicated 2h'er.

I didn't like using the light xbow compared to the xbow, so I could see making that back to 1 slot

[Gristle]

I haven't played in a while, so forgive the late post.

What they've done is make the Light Crossbow and Light Crossbow completely worthless, and the market reflects this. Crossbow is now objectively better than the Light Crossbow. Heavy Crossbow is now objectively better than the Crossbow. Arbalest is still objectively better than the Heavy, and now the other 2 as well. Some people do prefer the Heavy to the Arbalest because of the Arbalest's shot delay, but there's no reason to use the others when the Heavy is an option. They've made this mistake with some weapons and shields in the past (my shield has gone between 1 and 2 slots at least twice), and all it ever does is make those items a waste of space. It's the lazy and wrong way to fix a problem.

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As a personal complaint, the only 0 slot swords are Nordic (besides the Wakizashi). When will devs end this Rhodok oppression?

[Shaksie]

why only two? do you people forget about the poor Military sickle? 31 pierce or something mw in 2h mode. probably why mine was instantly taken from the marketplace when patch hit.
I would be in favour of making the bastard/hbs and or longsword 1 slot to compensate 2hders and spear and hafted blade 1 slot for polearms. would be nice i think
Also Hunting Xbow! Use it well ^^

In my experience, Longsword and Bastard swords are overpowered, they most certainly do not need a buff.
Military sickle is very short and doesn't have a stab.
Hunting xbow is a piece of crap!

Nerf 2h strength builds.
Buff everything else!

[Duster]

I haven't played in a while, so forgive the late post.

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As a personal complaint, the only 0 slot swords are Nordic (besides the Wakizashi). When will devs end this Rhodok oppression?

Broad Short Sword?

[Malaclypse]

Broad Short Sword?

Also Short Falchion, Short Sword, Short Arming Sword (this one is beast to boot), Scottish Sword... c'mon Gristle, open them peepers.