What do you think of the 2 slot xbows change?

[Keening]

2 Slot change to crossbow was heavily needed. If there were no changes to 1 handed weapons this would be a significantly larger nerf. However with many new 0 slot 1 handed it is great. I think intention here is in efforts to fix all of those Crossbowmen using two handed weapons. Just my two cents, game on!

[Malaclypse]

Overall it was needed, but Light Crossbow should have been left 1 slot to give hybrids at least SOME option (not considering Hunting Crossbow an option, but Light Crossbow was/is actually viable on foot).

[Lt_Anders]

Overall it was needed, but Light Crossbow should have been left 1 slot to give hybrids at least SOME option (not considering Hunting Crossbow an option, but Light Crossbow was/is actually viable on foot).

Ain't going to happen, cause HX's are the most evil existence so HX must be nerfed....oh wait, they weren't nerfed, they'll still carry 1 xbow and 2 bolts, they just lost 1 bolt slot.

[gdijim]

I think that Light crossbow should have remained the same as well.

Look - obviously not going to start some sort of big 'quitting' post, but this was a giant kick in the ass this late in the game to have the light crossbow, of all things, be changed to two slot.  As I've played a horse Xbow sword/board hybrid for 20 gens, I don't think I'll be changing it up.  I'll most likely just play less.  Fuck it.

If you want to really balance crossbow, go off WPF as what you're allowed to use.  I sacrificed all my iron-flesh points in order to do a truly hybrid build - 131 crossbow, 108 1 hand, which meant I had to keep a balanced 18/18 build to get 6 Weapon proficiency.  If the target of this change is two-hand hero's wielding x-bows, then put in something to check WPF instead of making it a slot thing.

Anyway - this was lame.

Release_Arrows

[Balikar]

I have to agree with Release on this one.  I don't see the need for the change. 

[Rumblood]

Overall it was needed, but Light Crossbow should have been left 1 slot to give hybrids at least SOME option (not considering Hunting Crossbow an option, but Light Crossbow was/is actually viable on foot).

37 pierce, 45 when MW isn't "viable"??

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[Kamirane]

Anwser to the orignial post

(click to show/hide)

First up, this is not a whine thread. I would like to understand if the community feels the change of crossbows (light and regular) to 2 slots was warranted and what the pro's & con's are.

2 SLOT XBOWS YAY or NAY?

Pro's of the change:

• Less ranged on the battlefield
• Works around the issue of no dedicated point investment necessary to use a crossbow (for some build types only - see below)

Con's of the change:

• Almost entirely eliminating the "class" of 2 handed sword and polearm crossbow hybrids (there are no valid one-slot 2 handers besides the mace, three* 1 handers in alternative mode, and a very limited amount of on slot polearms available)
• Further discourages hybrids and promotes dedicated strength/agi builds
• Reduction of variety on the battlefield
• Affects only certain build types, not 1hd xbow users
• No incentive (besides price) to use the regular xbow over the heavy xbow or arbalest anymore
• Need for massive respecs/training lessons
• Inadvertently buffed horse crossbows in this patch. 2h/pole users can't carry a crossbow sidearm anymore, so there will be even fewer threats to HX

Was the feeling in the community that the combination of two-slot main weapon and one-slot crossbow + bolts was overpowered? Is the intention to make all crossbow users 1 handers only? Was there simply too much ranged in game?

Are there alternatives to fix the con's without resulting in two-slot crossbows? Is this only a way to address the root cause issue: no dedicated point investment necessary to use an xbow?


Discuss and I will add your comments to the pro's and con's.

They all can still use a Hunting-Xbow. So they just lost a bit damage on the secondary Weapon. But as a Shielder, for example, u got now new good weapons and also 0-Slot-Weapons to balance this out.

But maybe it will be more realistic if X-Bows have a need in WPF to be able to aim right like Archery. Its alot difference between swinging a Weapon and aiming with a ranged weapon.

[Malaclypse]

37 pierce, 45 when MW isn't "viable"??

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Maybe so, but it's about at the level of the Nomad Bow/Bodkins with 6 PD.

Archers have 6 bows they can easily hybrid any melee class with, 4 of which are damn good, and 2 bows they can hybrid with using a zero slot or less ammo.

 Crossbows have 1 item they can easily hybrid any melee class with, and four they can take less bolts or a zero slot with. Archers should have more bows they're able to hybridize easily with since they do have to invest more into their use, but it just seems pretty extreme. Making just the crossbow 2 slots seems like enough, unless we're going to make Horn/Yumi 2 slots as well.

I understand that the Crossbow was pretty powerful, and probably the easiest Crossbow to use with low prof, and because of this yeah, it deserves the two-slot tag. But from my experience using MW Light Crossbow + MW Steel Bolts with 170 prof it hardly seems like it was deserving of the loss (without a boost to some of it's stats as the Crossbow received on Damage).

[Nihtgenga]

what I dont get is why they destroy 2h/polearm - xbow hybrids but make it easier for 1h/shield/xbow hybrids.

I think it is the wrong way to reduce the 2h/xbow hybrids on the battlefield. A higher wpf requirement would have been better. it reduces the xbows but still gives the people a chance to have a bit of a diversified playstyle (dedicated hybrids)

[Kamirane]

Archers have 6 bows they can easily hybrid any melee class with, 4 of which are damn good, and 2 bows they can hybrid with using a zero slot or less ammo.

 

But i think u forgot about 1 important thing. U need alot WPF in Archery to get some aim and damage. X-Bow doesnt rly need WPF.

[Lt_Anders]

But i think u forget about 1 important thing. U need alot WPF in Archery to get some aim and damage. X-Bow doesnt rly need WPF.

haha. 4 pd and 60 wpf and I'm good to go with medium armor.

They lowered the PD wpf requirement so the "U NEED GOOD INVESTMENT" is actually false. 5 PD plus about 80 wpf and I'm perfectly viable hybrid able to use most bows and do decent damage.

[Kamirane]

haha. 4 pd and 60 wpf and I'm good to go with medium armor.

They lowered the PD wpf requirement so the "U NEED GOOD INVESTMENT" is actually false. 5 PD plus about 80 wpf and I'm perfectly viable hybrid able to use most bows and do decent damage.

Thats what i talk about. You need with X-Bow, to have a similar build (just switch Archery and X-Bow), no skillpoints and no WPF - ok give the 60-80 WPF to X-bow... you still loose 4-5 skillpoints.

[Turboflex]

This 100%.  Fighting past a whole team, charging through a rain of bolts, only to find a well-armoured, full-health pure greatsword user with 2 extra WM for the crossbow was ridiculous.

These people are taking a risk. If theyre a good player and wanna spend the key initial moments of the infantry engagement sitting in the back behind a tree taking  potshots at people with their secondary weapon instead of actually applying all that armor and hero weapon to a heavy melee fight, they're gonna find themselves quickly outnumbered. So they may as well be in cloth and using a heavyxbow or arbalast. The majority of battle rounds are won in the first minute during the infantry clash.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

These people are taking a risk. If theyre a good player and wanna spend the key initial moments of the infantry engagement sitting in the back behind a tree taking  potshots at people with their secondary weapon instead of actually applying all that armor and hero weapon to a heavy melee fight, they're gonna find themselves quickly outnumbered. So they may as well be in cloth and using a heavyxbow or arbalast. The majority of battle rounds are won in the first minute during the infantry clash.

Not in EU, they're usually first settled here in the second smaller clash of the people who stayed behind/survived the initial one.

[oprah_winfrey]

haha. 4 pd and 60 wpf and I'm good to go with medium armor.

They lowered the PD wpf requirement so the "U NEED GOOD INVESTMENT" is actually false. 5 PD plus about 80 wpf and I'm perfectly viable hybrid able to use most bows and do decent damage.

Compared to the crossbow were all you need is...the crossbow and the bolts.