How to make crpg more enjoyable

[Paul]

From my point of view the reason why ranged cause a longer stagger is that the victim in most cases doesn't see the projectile coming and is surprised by it. On the other hand melee hits are usually less surprising, the recipient can prepare for the impact and thus has less downtime.

Of course now one could demand that melee hits from behind lead to a longer stagger while frontal ranged attacks only induce short ones but let me explain why...

I'm out of letters, gtg.

[rufio]

oh yeah your explenation makes it all so logical now, i guess it is totally ballanced and all is well now. thanks for clearing it up and making sense.

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 posting this also kind of shows that even a dev cant make sense of the ranged stagger, and how it fits in the multiplayer scene

[Shemaforash]

No it doesn't Rufio, stop fucking whining, 2H hero won't be buffed, archery won't be rendered useless by your patch. Fuck off

[NuberT]

offtopic but u do know that polearms have the same thing nubert, and ontop of that polearms are extremely hard to chamber because you get hit earlier than the animation shows.

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unless you mean the unballanced animationless hit, wich occurs from time to time when u block/feight cancel the swing mid swing, the animation will go back to passive hold but the swing will go through invisible

Sure polearm hit with 0-momentum, as well do 1h, but how many facehugging polearm players do you know? - its just way more abuseable with the 2h animation. I am not sure, if facehugging was even possible with the old armor/soak values, at least I cannot remember to have seen that playstyle back in spring 2011. Also polearms aren't harder to chamber, apart from glaive ofc^^ - there are just so few polearm players left, that you lack in practise .

Suggested ages ago, that stun should be damage related and only clear hits which deal a certain amount of damage should stun at all - stun is no fun .

[Gurnisson]

Well, I wouldn't mind the stagger going away, but compensating with movement buff is silly. I can still kite with 3 ath, rus bow and 2 set of bods.

Arrow speed and accuracy could need a buff if the stagger goes, nothing more, definitely not damage or kiting abilities. Coming from a guy who cba playing melee except for strat. xbow and archery is what I enjoy atm.

[rufio]

No it doesn't Rufio, stop fucking whining, 2H hero won't be buffed, archery won't be rendered useless by your patch. Fuck off

dousnt seem you are even reading enything yoloboy, go brows 9gag and stay outa here.

and nubert i am pretty sure polearms are very hard to chamber nowerdays, there are enough polearms arround , and  good players that know how to abuse the animations.. i reallly dont get where you are going at with this 2 handed op discussion in the rangedstagger and knockdown thread.

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ontopic: aside from the whole archery uproar, there hasnt been tomuch argument against changing knockdown, or the stun on throwing and xbows.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

ontopic: aside from the whole archery uproar, there hasnt been tomuch argument against changing knockdown, or the stun on throwing and xbows.

Stun should go away for all ranged weaponry, but then all ranged weaponry should receive appropriate buffs, and certainly not kiting ones.

Also I can chamber polearms slightly easier than 2h, but besides that and the 2h stab poles and 2h are somewhat equal. And just like with 2h you can do crazy hits early in the animation while facehugging or (only for polearms due to pole animations) even while having people be far behind you.

[rufio]

i deffenitly feel archery would need considerable compensation, throwing way less imo, and im not sure xbows should be compensated for it, or even how you would compensate xbows. removing stagger would make the il just wait till you release your shield and then shooot you and run game play, or the run up to you shootyou and run gameplay of some xbow players way harder/riskyer.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

i deffenitly feel archery would need considerable compensation, throwing way less imo, and im not sure xbows should be compensated for it, or even how you would compensate xbows. removing stagger would ruin the il just wait till you release your shield and then shooot you and run game play, or the run up to you shootyou and run gameplay of some xbow players.( wich is a gameplay style i wont miss tomuch if its gone )

The only way to fix the releasing at facehug range after an eternal hold issue (is done more by archers than crossbowmen) is making ranged glance at close range and then deal slightly more damage at appropriate range as compensation, I agree that xbows don't really need more than a tiny buff, but throwers are affected quite possibly more by this change than archers as they're currently able to throw, go melee, get a quick hit or throw, kite due to the stagger, throw, miss, throw, run, they're the only ones who directly benefit from the stagger themselves besides people shooting at facehug range.

[rufio]

well i think it beneftis archers and throwers equally, maybe reintroduce jumpthrow:)

[NuberT]

and nubert i am pretty sure polearms are very hard to chamber nowerdays, there are enough polearms arround , and  good players that know how to abuse the animations.. i reallly dont get where you are going at with this 2 handed op discussion in the rangedstagger and knockdown thread.

Topic is called "How to make crpg more enjoyable" and not "How to make crpg more enjoyable for Rufio exclusively" so I was like adding my opinion on how to make it more enjoyable. I am sorry..

Love XOXO

[rufio]

you do have a point, just that i would like this thread to revovle arround the suggestion of rangedstagger removal and how to compensate, and on hard tweaking the knockdown