Longbow worse than pre-patch?

[RagnarLodbroke]

Longbow is OK, but i still prefer the Strongbow

[Kafein]

Let me guess, two hander who refuses to equip a shield and expects that his class doesn't get owned by archers. Well I have news for you sir, all classes have something they are weak against for archery its shielders and cavalry. For you it's ranged, so don't complain buy a shield or learn to dodge. By the way thanks for the awesome bar increment whoever gave it, it's now back to normal.

On a sidenote: Thanks for restoring the old longbow image, my longbow looks like a long bow when it's in hand now.

Not really accurate.

When I'm playing 2h I hate archers. Seems logical. When I'm playing foot shielder I hate archers because there's allways 50 of them camping an unreachable roof, just waiting for a teammate to force you turning your back on them and shoot. Even two archers in a perfectly flat terrain are "impossible" to kill, even with another shielder, unless one of them do an error. When I'm cav I hate archers. They continuously focus me as soon as I enter their not-so-tunnelled vision. Two archers will "allways" kill me (two shots for the horse, one headshot when I'm on the ground).


Basically, whenever I play a pure melee char, archers are my first threat, whether I have a shield or not, I'm slow or not, I'm on a horse or not.

The main problem is that melee don't really become much harder to fight when they are many. Archers become exponentially harder to fight.


On the topic, I noticed that the longbow now actually has the same size, sheated or not. A bunch more people were using it than before.

[CaptainQuantum]

Against leather it does 4 less damage than before patch
Against chainmail it does 2 less damage
Against plate it does .5 less damage

If those numbers are true then I am glad I made this post, even though my awesomebar has been raped over the time this thread has been up, if a moderator sees those numbers and can verify them the longbow will get a much deserved buff. I was beginning to believe that it was just my unfamiliarity with the new arrow speed. I would like to know where or how you got those numbers too.

This makes my decision of what to start heirlooming much harder.

[Mullerian]

If those numbers are true then I am glad I made this post, even though my awesomebar has been raped over the time this thread has been up, if a moderator sees those numbers and can verify them the longbow will get a much deserved buff. I was beginning to believe that it was just my unfamiliarity with the new arrow speed. I would like to know where or how you got those numbers too.

This makes my decision of what to start heirlooming much harder.

Well the Longbow is still fairly decent. And i did get my first plate wearer going "wtf is up with that bow?" and raging slightly when i told him they changed the bow to piercing. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[CaptainQuantum]

Yes I know its decent but with those numbers there is no reason to use the longbow over the warbow, it loses on all stats.

[Mamba]

Did you guys notice that ONLY the Longbow got his pierce damage back? Thats why the stats were altered I believe. In theory Longbows should be more ffective versus tincans now.
But I don't know for sure.

[Mullerian]

Did you guys notice that ONLY the Longbow got his pierce damage back? Thats why the stats were altered I believe. In theory Longbows should be more ffective versus tincans now.
But I don't know for sure.

Yes, that was pretty much what the entire discussion was about. Whether the pierce damage is too low or just right when you compare it to the warbow. Would be awesome if we could at least get to know the break even point between the 24 pierce of the longbow and the 29 cut of the warbow, just for arguments sake with the basic arrows as well.

[CaptainQuantum]

Using Warband damage calculations with chadz' soak factors and reduction factors I have just shown algebreically and graphically to myself that the longbow never wins on damage, for ANY armour type. The calculations are somewhat complex but I will explain as best as I can here.
The amount of damage done follows the equation D=(d - s*a)(1-(r*a/100))*p where d is the base damage per shot, s is the soak factor, r is the reduction factor and p is some probabilistic modifier. p is probabilistic but same so it can be cancelled on either side. For the calculation of d I assumed bow base damage since power draw is not constant for all and will assist the warbow more than the longbow. Setting the different equations equal to one another for the warbow and longbow equivalents reveals complex solutions, i.e they don't intersect in the [real] plane. That was some A-level maths about intersection points so forgive me, what it basically means is that the longbow never breaks even with the warbow for ANY armour value since the damage drops to zero before the longbow can catch up. I used a graphical calculator to verify this, although most of you won't own one so you will have to take my word for it there. If my damage calculations (based on how they are calculated in native) are correct then the warbow is always better for damage. I would encourage people who can to verify this, because I am not superhuman I can make mistakes.

[ToxicKilla]

Using Warband damage calculations with chadz' soak factors and reduction factors I have just shown algebreically and graphically to myself that the longbow never wins on damage, for ANY armour type. The calculations are somewhat complex but I will explain as best as I can here.
The amount of damage done follows the equation D=(d - s*a)(1-(r*a/100))*p where d is the base damage per shot, s is the soak factor, r is the reduction factor and p is some probabilistic modifier. p is probabilistic but same so it can be cancelled on either side. For the calculation of d I assumed bow base damage since power draw is not constant for all and will assist the warbow more than the longbow. Setting the different equations equal to one another for the warbow and longbow equivalents reveals complex solutions, i.e they don't intersect in the [real] plane. That was some A-level maths about intersection points so forgive me, what it basically means is that the longbow never breaks even with the warbow for ANY armour value since the damage drops to zero before the longbow can catch up. I used a graphical calculator to verify this, although most of you won't own one so you will have to take my word for it there. If my damage calculations (based on how they are calculated in native) are correct then the warbow is always better for damage. I would encourage people who can to verify this, because I am not superhuman I can make mistakes.

Now that's what I call proof.

[3ABP]

It would be nice to see a some digits (numbers) as result.
For example some combinations of bow+arrows vs 20\40\60\80 armor.

[CaptainQuantum]

Well the whole problem is that they don't have numerical results, they are complex, for my calcultion they intersect at 0.3368421053-3.226895286i and 0.3368421052+3.226895286i. As you can see they are complex, so they never intersect, the warbow does more damage for all values of armour. I have just been playing around with the damage of the longbow and you don't get an improvement over the warbow in damage until you have 28 pierce, thats before PD calculation too since that will favour the warbow even further.

[Kafein]

Well, suppose you want to kill an enemy with negative HP, the longbow is better...

Are you sure about the formula ? If not, maybe we should gather raw info and make some interpolation out of it (so good to meet other people with decent math levels ) ) . But I don't even know how to gather precise info in this mod QQ

[CaptainQuantum]

I am talking to an admin on IRC, my equations for native do not apply completely to crpg, cmp changed the coding a little. But my calculations are pretty close. It turns out the longbow wins for very heavy armours (plate) but not enough to justify balance. So the longbow may get a buff.

[Jambi]

Sidenote:  I was testing damage with clanmate with longbow and at point blank range shooting straight into midsection the arrow passed through his body 3 times before i aimed higher and hit him in the neck.  Minor bug that probably needs fixing.

Experienced the same thing. Seems the developers have been fiddling around again with the hitboxes......*sigh*

Shooting straight thru people got worse now. The arrows fly thru all body parts, except for the arms and necks.

[3ABP]

BTW, yes, we are testing new bows a little on a duel server.
And very skilled (human skill) archer with good cRPG skill (WPF) missed me many times.
(both players standing still - not moving)
It looks like arrow flying trough the model.

And even on the battle server many many arrows what must hit me (as it was always) just missed me,
but they flying directly to me - but didn't hit me.
It's not for Longbow IMO, it's for all bows.