Oh yes, continue this little shitstorm about "how many people did soviets killed"/"they didn't MURDERED anyone, those were just casual CASUALTIES of WAR", "Stalingrad was a huge epic battle that saved best country USSR country", but honestly, I couldn't care less.
Yes, victory under Stalingrad pushed back Germans and probably saved USSR and shortened the war.
Battle itself was not only of a huge strategic importance (It was Soviet Union's 3rd biggest city at this time), but it was also a "duel" between Hi.tler and Stalin. N.azi leader hoped to capture the city and demand a peace treaty with Stalin after embarassing him with taking a city named after him, but because he was already going nuts his campaing failed.
So, it gave Stalin enough of prestige to demand entire eastern europe to be given into his influence in 1945 conference, including my country (while never part of USSR, Polish government was heavily controlled from Moscow), and thats a bad thing.
While many soldiers (Not most of them I believe) definetly died out of patriotism, I don't doubt that MANY would've gladly given up uncle stalin for uncle hit.ler, because HIT.LER didn't had a special divisions BEHIND his army lines to stop any deserters. Oh, patriotism fades? Don't worry, our NKVD batallions will bring back your motivation!
Randgrid, you keep talking something about soviets murdering a lot of people. While for sure many of those numbers are too big, they're still colossal.
Only poles died due to soviets occupation can be counted in 150 000 people, including 15 000 - 20 000 of our intelligentsia just in Katyn. (had to point it out because I'm a polack)
USSR citizens killed during entire Stalin's regime time: AT LEAST 20 Millions if not more. Sources? Oh I have a lot of time for that.
"There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without you pulling numbers out of thin air" school." Lovely quote isn't it?
Starting with name you mentioned before, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, in his works estimates killed during Stalin's regime (get used to that word, I'm going to overuse it) for 60 millions. And not just the 2WW, I mean the times after Lenins death and Stalins takeover, and years AFTER the war.
Norman Davies, one of my favourite historians, estimates killed for around 55 millions, excluding WW2 losses, so more-or-less its 37 millions pre WW2 and 17 millions after WW2 untill 1953
Rudolph Rummel Gives an estimate of 62 millions, including famine victims (Lethal Politics: Soviet Genocide and Mass Murder since 1917 - great book)
William Cockerham gives a number of to 50 millions and more, as many people were often called "missing"
Now, mind you, those are people who talk BIG numbers. To be fair I'll also list those who point out lesser amounts.
Though, its interesting how people giving us Lower Numbers often limit themselves only to certain periods...
Alec Nove, while only limiting himself to 30's, estimates killed during Stalins regime of that time to around 10 millions
Hm. I honestly thought I'd find more examples/sources, but apparently most people belong in the Big Number category, which tells a lot. So a median would be, what... 20-30 millions. Nice score, but not even close to Mao.
Also, from official soviet estimates, around 20-25 millions died during "Great Patriotic War" only, most being civilians.
All caused by madness of one person with unlimited power, paranoic leader who was SURE that everyone was after him, megalomaniac whose ideals caused death of untold millions.
Who was a very good billiard player, I have to admit.
And let me clarify: I'm from Poland, I hate pretty much everything but above all I hate denying the truth/facts that are OBVIOUS by propaganda-spoiled brains or just simple ignorance, or even lack of knowledge. None of that justifies being a screamer in history threads.
