Author Topic: Sick to my stomach  (Read 7564 times)

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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2013, 05:24:14 pm »
+1
Well no one could deny that the Russians essentially won the war in Europe. The German's focused the majority of their forces on Russia and the Western front was a small detail in comparison to the scale of the Eastern. Not to mention the USA and the rest were late to the party at D-Day. Although at least us British held them off from our little Island  :wink: Put simply, without the Russians Europe would have been fucked. And probably a lot of other places too.

As much as that is true though, the Soviets did some horrible things, to themselves and to everyone else as Tiberius pointed out. Mind you, I can't exactly talk being British. It was our policy to bomb the crap out of civilian targets and pretend we were bombing military ones to the public. Pretty sure the RAF (and US pilots to) were responsible for the deaths of 1000's of civilians as a result.

Basically I think the main conclusion from all that is each country was a right arse hole to others during WW2, including to civilians. It just so happens some were worse than others.

Doesn't take away from the fact that Stalin was a horrific tyrant though.

Offline Molly

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2013, 05:30:25 pm »
0
What came to my mind, reading Oberyns post, that there was some civil war thing for a few days in some country close to Russia where one half was shooting at the other half and the attacked side was pro-Russian and even Russian military got in there to "protect" them and stuff?
I don't really get it together any more since it seemed more like a side-note to history but there was something. Like 3-4 years ago maybe?

I am too lazy to google it tbh. And now I lost my thought why I started to write this in the first place... damn it.


And about Russians being proud... I think there is a lack of reflection when it comes to Stalin and all those crimes during WW2 by the Russian side. That's something where Germany is far more advanced than maybe any other country really.

And about the RAF bombs... for me Dresden comes to mind first.
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2013, 05:36:30 pm »
0
Anyway, 100 years from now people will be as emotionally involved in conflicts of the 20th century as we are of those of the 19th. Yeah. Some pretty damn horrible tyrants "survived" history, the "details" being forgotten as time goes by.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2013, 06:32:25 pm »
0
What came to my mind, reading Oberyns post, that there was some civil war thing for a few days in some country close to Russia where one half was shooting at the other half and the attacked side was pro-Russian and even Russian military got in there to "protect" them and stuff?
I don't really get it together any more since it seemed more like a side-note to history but there was something. Like 3-4 years ago maybe?

I am too lazy to google it tbh. And now I lost my thought why I started to write this in the first place... damn it.


And about Russians being proud... I think there is a lack of reflection when it comes to Stalin and all those crimes during WW2 by the Russian side. That's something where Germany is far more advanced than maybe any other country really.

And about the RAF bombs... for me Dresden comes to mind first.

South Ossetia? It is an example of Russia militarily intervening to defend an ethnic Russian enclave inside a former Soviet republic. Georgia was part of the USSR before WW2 though, since 1920's or so I think? Bunch of ethnic Georgians died fighting for the Soviets during WW2. Stalin was ethnically Georgian.

edit: Seems I am wrong, Ossetian is an ethnic group in it's own right, but culturally and politically closer to Russians (because they had defacto independence as an oblast) than Georgians. More complicated situation than it looks, not really similar to the Baltics at all.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 06:43:12 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Molly

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2013, 07:08:33 pm »
0
I just remembered something about Russia "invading" a place and the UN being pissed about it...
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2013, 09:50:28 pm »
+1
At least Stalin for all the horrible history he's associated with, wasn't awarded a Nobel "PEACE" Prize before going to war with multiple nations and continuing war with even more by means of proxy and technology. That is truly a symptom of mental illness if any... Same can be said for those who idolize such individuals.
Dumbfuck.Fuckwit.Cuntshit.Brickfuck.

Offline Firebrand

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2013, 05:07:26 am »
-3
Stalingrad is symbol of Victory of soviet people against inhumanity of german racism against slavic people and not symbol of city of Stalin like it was before war. Our grandfathers died in this city to save future for us and this was great and heroic Victory. Many wants to reduce meaning of Stalingrad battle and fact that Soviet Union destroyed wehrmacht. Up to 75% of german military forces was in eastern front fought against USSR, and they was broken and destroyed in their lair! All that germans did on our land and with our people can't be compared even with holocaust. They destroyed much more soviet civilian ppl than jews in concentration camps.

I don't say that repressions made by Stalin regime is ok or something. It abominations in my eyes as  told before. For all innosent people who was repressed by political reasons it was big tragedy. People suffered. But who told you about millions of executed during repressions? What books do you read? Solzhenitsin? or whatever his name in english... Phew.. Or maybe you didn't read about it any book, but heard it on TV or internet?

Show me documentary evidences about "millions" executed people by Stalin. Can you find it? Nah you can't. Cause its another brainwashed western propaganda myth. In other word lies.

Educated people knows that western(usa) system of propaganda took most things and methods of Ministry Propaganda of Dr. Goebbels. And use with success. They just modified it to modern state. Big Brother. Like Chuck Palahniuk wrote: “Big Brother isn’t watching. He’s singing and dancing. He’s pulling rabbits out of a hat. Big Brother’s busy holding your attention every moment you’re awake. He’s making sure you’re always distracted. He’s making sure you’re fully absorbed.” If you know i mean... If you preffer to believe what they told you its your choice, go live with banded eyes like blindmen, let them inspire you. And i'm talking not about Stalin and soviet terror regime. Basicly you should be don't care about all those past days happened in far cold Russia where bears dancing on streets...
They can make enemy from anyone and make you think that its right to destroy them, and bring "democracy" by fire and death to other people. And almost noone could stop them... Think about that.

So let us decide how deal with our history, that war, Great Patriotic War, for you it's ww2 -  touched every family of russian ppl, every family lost at least one its member. We should rememeber all those victims adn heroic act of bravery of our grandfathers who lied down for freedom and peace on Earth. Believe me there is a lot of bastards here in  Russia who want to get rid of it. To erase our history to show that it was nothing... Those brats don't need your help, they do well and without you. You have more important things than to have stomach ache about things you barely know well.

And about baltic countries. Let them scream, noone cares about them. Its their prerogative to scream more than others. How else they could attract attention to themselves? Let them better look into mirror and deal with neonazzism inside their countries instead hate Russia! Maybe then they'll feel better...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 05:42:21 am by Firebrand »
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2013, 06:06:31 am »
0
Ok your argument is somewhat confusing. After cutting through all the patriotic bull crap this stood out:
I don't say that repressions made by Stalin regime is ok or something. It abominations in my eyes as  told before. For all innosent people who was repressed by political reasons it was big tragedy. People suffered. But who told you about millions of executed during repressions? What books do you read? Solzhenitsin? or whatever his name in english... Phew.. Or maybe you didn't read about it any book, but heard it on TV or internet?

Show me documentary evidences about "millions" executed people by Stalin. Can you find it? Nah you can't. Cause its another brainwashed western propaganda myth. In other word lies.

Ah you seriously trying to deny that Stalin killed millions of people. I'm not even going to bother continue arguing if you are.

Heck just go read up on the Road of Bones and see how lovely Stalin was.

Offline Firebrand

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2013, 06:55:46 am »
0
Ok your argument is somewhat confusing. After cutting through all the patriotic bull crap this stood out:
Ah you seriously trying to deny that Stalin killed millions of people. I'm not even going to bother continue arguing if you are.

Heck just go read up on the Road of Bones and see how lovely Stalin was.
Can you clarify authors name - there is lot of books with such dramatic and catchy title: "The Road Of Bones".  I will take a look at it if i will have free time.
And btw. I didn't ask to show me book where showed monster-Stalin eating babies, i asked documentary evidences of millions executed people.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2013, 07:27:00 am »
-1
No I cannot as it was a long time ago that I read about these things. Regardless, I think this would be fruitless anyway as no source would be good enough.


I think you'd enjoy this thread: http://forum.meleegaming.com/historical-discussion/has-history-ever-happened/

Offline Tibe

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2013, 08:05:55 am »
0
And about baltic countries. Let them scream, noone cares about them. Its their prerogative to scream more than others. How else they could attract attention to themselves? Let them better look into mirror and deal with neonazzism inside their countries instead hate Russia! Maybe then they'll feel better...

Cunt, saying this is Western made up propaganda. We had news about Red Army pulling horrible shit in the Baltics way before we even had western influence, do not forget we didnt have western radio or a single damn thing western and we still knew what you guys pulled. And this stuff isnt taken from random people, this stuff is taken from legit people who lived at that time, under communist rule almost their entire life. So how is it possible that they had Western influence?

 Baltics arent really chocolate chip cookie anymore. We are in EU for christ sakes, Germany would litterally burn us to the ground if we shoved any sign of YMCA. This modernday Baltic chocolate chip cookiemith is another made up bullcrap by angry uneducated Russians who are angry that the baltic people arent kissing ass to the russian immigrants. This is acctually the true reason of that mith. And yes we do have chocolate chip cookieparades, but its not to honor einstein and chocolate chip cookie Germany, but those that fought for their country. Cause Baltics only had 2 choices chocolate chip cookies or Communists. And Soviet Union was a pretty poor and horrible country, not to mention all other horrible stuff.

Again, I think you are trolling here. Nobody could be that brainwashed....could it?

Offline Firebrand

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2013, 08:08:51 am »
0
No I cannot as it was a long time ago that I read about these things. Regardless, I think this would be fruitless anyway as no source would be good enough.


I think you'd enjoy this thread: http://forum.meleegaming.com/historical-discussion/has-history-ever-happened/
Man believe me, i don't really want to change someone opinion especially here on forum. If you guys like to think about Stalin killed tens or even hundreds millions of innocent people you free to think that. I don't care. I just asked for evidences - all archives are declassified and available so welcome to Russia and try to find all those "millions killed by Stalin himself with his personal nagant". You can call me troll or idiot i don't care. Of course for you western people pleasantly to think about Russia like bloody terror state. And we guilty ourselves in that opinion of western countries. We are the first who paint in dirt our history. They write books in english to show our state in black tones they re-write history, including ww2 history.
So for me returnig heroic name to my city is not about Stalin its all about Stalingrad battle, which turned world history, and noone can erase this from memories! Stalingrad name has many streets, squares, boulevards in western Europe in honor of that battle. Civilized people remember and know real history. And only nazzis crying cause of big butthurt...
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2013, 08:12:27 am »
0
This is where I oddly agree. I mean using the name Stalingrad again, is pretty stupid imo. But personally it doesnt make me butthurt. Doesnt really have any reason. Just a name of a town.

Offline Firebrand

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2013, 08:18:12 am »
0
Text with personal insulting
Do you know about 14, 15, 19, 20 SS-divisions?  Do you understand that they was involved in inhuman crimes agaisnt civilian people? Do you know that contingent served in those punitive units was crimes? You heil them as veterans. You should cheers them holding cute puppy flags at least it would be honest.
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Sick to my stomach
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2013, 08:27:11 am »
0
Probably, but communists pulled more inhuman crimes against civilian people on our soil. And we have facts. Loads and loads of factual proof. If you really wanted to find them, you would. I wish you good luck going with that knowledge of history anywhere outside of Russia. Trust me, people will laugh and think its quite cute. Frankly so do I. Shit I stopped trying now. Arguing with russians about history is like arguing with North Koreans. :lol: