Author Topic: Those that have no life: Have No Fear, This XP System Benefits Only You!  (Read 5208 times)

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Offline Kalam

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2) Heirlooms are given out through events such as tournaments or strategus.

I love the idea of getting special items from tournaments, having played a game that did this, but I have a feeling that if such a thing were ever (it doesn't sound like something that the hoi polloi cRPG players would like) implemented, the tournaments would take place on a EU server. And so, as an American, I reject that idea!

On the subject of wipes, though...the fact that wipes hurt all and only benefit ongoing grinders should be emphasized and drilled into every player.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 05:47:00 pm by Kalam »

Offline Mouse

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Why don't we just remove levels from cRPG? I mean, seriously, what's their purpose?

Offline Tomas_of_Miles

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Why don't we just remove levels from cRPG? I mean, seriously, what's their purpose?
LOL.
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Offline MrShine

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The people who were benefiting most from 10% XP bonus weren't people with "no life" who resemble the bald snack munching guy from that Warcraft episode of South Park but the people who beat the Hell out of the retirement system before the previous patch, when you could retire at level 15 every week. That's the problem with 10%; it favours an old established elite who were around back then and who got to generation 10 or 20 when it was still easy to do it.

But the people who were already a high gen in the past already have the heirloomed items they were going for; the benefit beyond that is the ability to experiment with builds, something that doesn't affect the battle server at all but rather player enjoyment and variety.

Now all that happened is everyone has to spend more time to reach level 31 and retire.  The people previously established with high generations are only hurt by the xp because they have plenty of heirlooms.  It's the people who have low gens who are ultimately hurt the most because they aren't able to level up as quickly from retirements and heirloom their basic equipment now.

Really if people wanted to make things more 'even' or whatever they should be in favor of a higher xp bonus per retire, because that will bring them up to 'heirloom par' quicker.
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Offline Rangerbob

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My opinion is that heirlooms are so nerfed now other than maybe ranged looms that they make little to no difference in the game.  That extra 1 speed and 4 damage is not going to transform a bad player into a good player.  Rhade would probably tear your head off with a staff even if you have a masterworked danish.  The xp thing I'm a little sad about since it increases times between respecs and time I can play around with builds. With the heirloom nerf which I think was well deserved the difference between the gen 10 guys and the gen 1 guys are now minimal.  Whoever can block and has better footwork will win.  I don't have a single loomed weapon and I do fine on maps.  I'm sure most of the high gen people do as well.  Fact is learn to block and learn to move and it doesn't heirlooms don't matter.

Offline Torp

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My opinion is that heirlooms are so nerfed now other than maybe ranged looms that they make little to no difference in the game.  That extra 1 speed and 4 damage is not going to transform a bad player into a good player.  Rhade would probably tear your head off with a staff even if you have a masterworked danish.  The xp thing I'm a little sad about since it increases times between respecs and time I can play around with builds. With the heirloom nerf which I think was well deserved the difference between the gen 10 guys and the gen 1 guys are now minimal.  Whoever can block and has better footwork will win.  I don't have a single loomed weapon and I do fine on maps.  I'm sure most of the high gen people do as well.  Fact is learn to block and learn to move and it doesn't heirlooms don't matter.

+1.... except that most heirlooms only give 1 speed and 2 dmg for Masterwork

it is ridiculous imo

Offline ManOfWar

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Ya im against a wipe now :D
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Offline Kalam

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My opinion is that heirlooms are so nerfed now other than maybe ranged looms that they make little to no difference in the game.  That extra 1 speed and 4 damage is not going to transform a bad player into a good player.  Rhade would probably tear your head off with a staff even if you have a masterworked danish.  The xp thing I'm a little sad about since it increases times between respecs and time I can play around with builds. With the heirloom nerf which I think was well deserved the difference between the gen 10 guys and the gen 1 guys are now minimal.  Whoever can block and has better footwork will win.  I don't have a single loomed weapon and I do fine on maps.  I'm sure most of the high gen people do as well.  Fact is learn to block and learn to move and it doesn't heirlooms don't matter.

I'm not quite sure what the point of the heirloom nerf was, as the same people still top the boards in every game mode. For the most part, the only significant difference I can think of was weight. Ultimately, speed and damage matter less than weight for a fight between players who aren't new to the game.

Offline Rangerbob

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I'm not quite sure what the point of the heirloom nerf was, as the same people still top the boards in every game mode. For the most part, the only significant difference I can think of was weight. Ultimately, speed and damage matter less than weight for a fight between players who aren't new to the game.

Well now that they've removed crushthrough from everything except mauls and mallets weight matters alot less in the game.  Yes you get some polearm stun but the nerf was needed.  The difference between a mw bec and a normal was 6 pierce and 2 speed.  Thats actually a good 20% better than the original which matters because its just enough to one shot most people with high power strike.  Its the masterworks that get you from the 2 shot to 1 shot threshold that make a huge difference in the game.

I am actually enjoying the game a whole lot more now that the balancing has kicked in.  Yes my build is gimped with 54 points in throwing and 10 PT which I can't even use but I'm having more fun than ever actually running around without eating lances and axes left and right.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 11:13:23 pm by Rangerbob »

Offline Falesh

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I think that exponential growth is a silly way to have an leveling system, especially one that gives heirlooms that people aspire to own. Sure this change may hurt me and my clan in that we are all gen 1, or only just gen 2, so we will have a harder time getting decked out in heirloomed items but I would much rather have that if it means a more balanced mod.

I can understand high gen people wanting the old system so they can change play styles to keep things interesting but I don't agree that this is an argument to keep a system that breaks other things. Instead why not have a new system that allows you to respec without having to level up from 1 again. For instance they could change it so you can retire at 31 but chose not to get an heirloomed item and be dropped to level 30 as well as having your stats and skills reset, or you could pay 20k for a respec, ect. This would also allow low gen people the luxury of changing their specs more easily too.

Basically I think changing spec and gaining heirlooms should be seperated because new heirlooms should be hard to get at any gen whereas respecs shouldn't necessarily be as hard to achieve.

Offline Corrado_Decimo

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... That's the problem with 10%; it favours an old established elite who were around back then and who got to generation 10 or 20 when it was still easy to do it ...

ehm sir... should i remind you something. the old retirement system also required a sum of gold to do the retirement. was:

-   5000 gold for gen 2
- 10000 gold for gen 3
- 15000 gold for gen 4
- 20000 gold for gen 5
- 25000 gold for gen 6
- 30000 gold for gen 7
- 35000 gold for gen 8
- 40000 gold for gen 9
- 45000 gold for gen 10
- 50000 gold for gen 11
- 55000 gold for gen 12
- 60000 gold for gen 13
- 65000 gold for gen 14
- 70000 gold for gen 15
- 75000 gold for gen 16
- 80000 gold for gen 17
- 85000 gold for gen 18
- 90000 gold for gen 19
- 95000 gold for gen 20

so... with the old patch, just tell me. how you can earn say 75k in a week to retire from gen 15 to 16? then how can you do 95k gold in a week to retire from gen19 to 20?

come on.. if you don't know or if you haven't played the previous patch, just sit.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 12:03:53 am by Corrado_Decimo »

Offline Ravendark

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On the subject of wipes, though...the fact that wipes hurt all and only benefit ongoing grinders should be emphasized and drilled into every player.

"Only benefit ongoing grinders" Yes. YES! If you want to make a game THIS is what you want.

If the major problem is high-gen people sucking like bloated vampires on an ever-increasing and very real bonus that came back to bite you worse than you ever imagined then deal with those people (well, chars, nothing personal  :)).
I would sugest, in my draconian way, to reset all chars over gen 5 to 5 and make all heirlooms x1. The screams of outrage would secretly please me.

A mod requires players. New players. With things being as they are you discourage that. This is the most horrible mistake you can make make as a games-developer. And in this I sugest that at least some of the people involved in creating this mod has SOME ambition where all this might lead them.

An old saying goes: "Build it and they will come".Though far from the solution to anyones worries the words are true enough.
A steady fanbase is a precious thing but anything that gets in the way of new blood is something that should be regarded as the cancerous parasite that it is. Personally I have 4 friends who have tried out, and still plays, this mod in the last 2 months.
And they are not worried about changes at all, but the reward for grinding a low-gen is too low, far too low, compared to other rpg's(mmo or otherwise) and they will, as many will, play something something more rewarding when the grind gets old and before any noticable difference.

Cut out that which offends and the experience is better for it.

And if the game you make is more enjoyable in the fields, on the battlements and in the crowded corridors then the old timers will return, for isnt a good game why they where here to begin with?

Offline Corrado_Decimo

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The difference between a mw bec and a normal was 6 pierce and 2 speed.  Thats actually a good 20% better than the original which matters because its just enough to one shot most people with high power strike.  Its the masterworks that get you from the 2 shot to 1 shot threshold that make a huge difference in the game.

that's why a tincan 1hit weapon with simply too high speed should be nerfd. with a 27/12 or 24/15 build you can 1hit most armored foes... and with 95 speed + NOT UNBALANCED weapon, you're faster and block better than any other pierce/blunt/antiarmor weapon.

Offline Tydeus

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I love the idea of getting special items from tournaments, having played a game that did this, but I have a feeling that if such a thing were ever (it doesn't sound like something that the hoi polloi cRPG players would like) implemented, the tournaments would take place on a EU server. And so, as an American, I reject that idea!
Maybe it's because I don't have a clan and haven't bothered with tournaments at all really, but why would any events/tournaments need to be on EU? Why couldn't the Dev team set the rules for the different tournaments/events and we only have to implement them. Better yet, they could make it part of a game mode, so Admins wouldn't even have to oversee the tournaments, aside for minor things.
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On the subject of wipes, though...the fact that wipes hurt all and only benefit ongoing grinders should be emphasized and drilled into every player.
Indeed, I've seen so many complaints from new players/casual players about the old system, that think that this new system will give them what they want. Sadly though, the reality is, it won't. Worse still, is the fact that even though I've stated this in several different threads, I'm not sure it's caught on to that many people.


I think that exponential growth is a silly way to have an leveling system, especially one that gives heirlooms that people aspire to own. Sure this change may hurt me and my clan in that we are all gen 1, or only just gen 2, so we will have a harder time getting decked out in heirloomed items but I would much rather have that if it means a more balanced mod.

I can understand high gen people wanting the old system so they can change play styles to keep things interesting but I don't agree that this is an argument to keep a system that breaks other things. Instead why not have a new system that allows you to respec without having to level up from 1 again. For instance they could change it so you can retire at 31 but chose not to get an heirloomed item and be dropped to level 30 as well as having your stats and skills reset, or you could pay 20k for a respec, ect. This would also allow low gen people the luxury of changing their specs more easily too.

Basically I think changing spec and gaining heirlooms should be seperated because new heirlooms should be hard to get at any gen whereas respecs shouldn't necessarily be as hard to achieve.

I like the overall theme of this post, especially the separation of heirlooms and respecs.

But, with the current nerf to masterworks, I honestly don't believe that it is a balance issue anymore, at least not that would be worth noting in this thread.
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Offline Falesh

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But, with the current nerf to masterworks, I honestly don't believe that it is a balance issue anymore, at least not that would be worth noting in this thread.

I don't mean balanced in that way but balanced as a system. As you say player skill dominates the small advantage that heirlooms give. I just like the heirloom system as it gives me nice goals to work toward which in turn will give me another reason to play the game outside of Strategus.