Those that have no life: Have No Fear, This XP System Benefits Only You!

[Teeth]

I thought the lowered xp bonus was a good thing, but I also thought that we were going to get a base xp of 1500 or something. Now it takes like 60-70 hours for a gen and after a  shitload of gens it will be 50-60. That jsut blows and it is too long. Ah well when I get the heirlooms I wanted I will just never go to 31 again and just retire early if I want a new build.

[tankmen]

Hi, I'm Tydeus's friend, KAYNE_WEST. I'm just going to share my thoughts on the topic.

As a fairly new player (gen-1, 8.3 mil to 31) at about 70 hours into this character, I can tell you with certainty that I will not play the c-RPG mod any longer with the reductions on the XP bonus.

For what purpose was the XP bonus nerf put in place? To cut down on heirlooms? To cut down on rewarding those who play more often than others? For either of these two reasons, if you support either, you're fucking stupid.

1.)Cutting down on heirlooms:
First of all, heirlooms didn't mean too much before. I've had Tydeus Let's be serious here, I'm fucking horrible, yet I would rape some kids with heirlooms. Case in point: Watching Rhade in the battle server. Pretty sure he isn't rolling in gen-16 looms.

Second of all, were they not nerfed heavily with this patch? Damage, whatever else got fucking buffed with looming, pretty sure it all got lowered. They were also indirectly nerfed with double-slots and upkeep increases. Maybe not by a lot, but this stuff adds up.

2.)Rewarding those who play more.
LOL.
Was trying to cut rewards to those who play more a serious reason? You do know that's at the heart of every MMO, even more so for every MMORPG, yes? Better yet, it's at the heart of every game. As someone who was still riding that grind pony to his first retirement, I had no problems with the next guy being gen 10. Gen 12. Gen 16. And seeing them retire every 2-3 days. In fact, that drove me to play more. I wanted that. Fuck the heirlooms. I wanted to be able to experiment with builds, try hybrids, try cavalry, try archery. That has been robbed from every low gen player right now. For myself, it is no longer a possibility.

The change in XP simply decreases the possibilities of fun, and widens the gap between the rich and Poor Richard.

I did not get raped because the guy had looms, I got raped because he's better.

I did not get raped because he can retire faster, I got raped because he's better.

In an RPG, you have to have something to build towards, to strive after. With these changes, I have a better shot at this in a Korean MMO. I'm pretty sure that's not the direction this game wants to be taking.

pretty much my thoughts as well... as long as there is something to be gained, those who play more will get it, those who dont, bitch. simple. guess ill quit til i get my xp back

[Tydeus]

I thought the lowered xp bonus was a good thing, but I also thought that we were going to get a base xp of 1500 or something. Now it takes like 60-70 hours for a gen and after a  shitload of gens it will be 50-60. That jsut blows and it is too long. Ah well when I get the heirlooms I wanted I will just never go to 31 again and just retire early if I want a new build.

Problem with this, is that lacking levels is more of a gimp than fighting someone with heirlooms when you don't even have one. Levels single handedly play the largest role in a player's effectiveness. And indeed, I think most people who thought the lower bonus was good because the base xp of 1500 would mean that EVERYONE levels faster. Instead everyone is just a hell of a lot slower, and everyone is worse off since they're going to be missing levels more than they are heirlooms.

[Torp]

i liked being able to switch builds quite often while still playing on my main... cant do that anymore, and that kinda ruins the game for me.

[Geon]

I agree with Tydeus' argument, and  I nominate KANYE_WEST for president. +1

[tankmen]

im thoroughly surprised there haven't been anyone replying negatively towards this...my views are i started at 1500 at x1 when this patch came out, I WORKED my way up to 3000 at x1, and am now at 1450 at x1.... /wrists nope not doing it

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

Levels single handedly play the largest role in a player's effectiveness.

You couldn't be more wrong, this generation I actually picked a hunting xbow + steel bolts and had some kills starting level 4.

Yet I agree with you all - I get bored quick and I tend to enjoy quick progression on lower levels more than the high level grind when all your toon is already made and good for fighting. The exp nerf stands against everything I belive in.

[Tydeus]

You couldn't be more wrong, this generation I actually picked a hunting xbow + steel bolts and had some kills starting level 4.

Yet I agree with you all - I get bored quick and I tend to enjoy quick progression on lower levels more than the high level grind when all your toon is already made and good for fighting. The exp nerf stands against everything I belive in.

Woah, you definitely took me out of context.

I'm a person who generally starts toping charts again starting from level 10. I'm not talking about what a person can or cannot do. I'm talking about what power strike does, compared to what 2/4/6 base damage does or 2/4/6 armor does.

[Corrado_Decimo]

funny how people continue to say how "topping charts = skill"

i'm up for a:

- charwipe
- xp bonus to soften the grind
- heirloom items cap
- heirloom exchange

[hammypants]

funny how people continue to say how "topping charts = skill"

Warning, red herring.

[Tydeus]

funny how people continue to say how "topping charts = skill"

Not sure where this is found in the thread or how it holds any relevance here. Are you suggesting something else?

psbtw I normally agree that KD != skill. Though players with high skill do often have a great K:D/top charts.

[Garem]

psbtw I normally agree that KD != skill. Though players with high skill do often have a great K:D/top charts.

Indeed. They used to be called archers. Now they're called Cavalry. I think, and hope, that cavalry will get their lance capabilities back, even though that means they'll chew me up even more than they already do. =(

Regarding the OP:
As for the former XP system being to the benefit of low level players, you're not exactly correct. It was, objectively speaking, to everyone's benefit to gain more XP at an increasing rate. Yet we must keep this in relative terms. Relatively speaking, it was much to the detriment of low gen characters because the rate of growth was constantly increasing, giving more and better gear to higher generation characters at an increasing rate. This is called positive feedback, and in the real world, any such system is broken. Electric circuits, wildlife populations, anything that gets bigger at an increasing rate with nothing to keep it in check is dangerous. For our game, it's similarly detrimental. The only limitation involved is what a character can use/wear at any given time. That's a pretty weak balancing factor.

So yes, you're right that this XP system favors high gen characters the most. They lost the most, but they also have far, far more generations and heirlooms already. The current "fix" is good because at least it has curbed the growth rate of the ridiculously high gen folks, but that's about the only thing that was solved. Furthermore, low gen folks are now crippled like high-gen, so they do not have the capacity to gain what others did over the high-XP days of the previous version/last five months.

[Tydeus]

Indeed. They used to be called archers. Now they're called Cavalry. I think, and hope, that cavalry will get their lance capabilities back, even though that means they'll chew me up even more than they already do. =(

Regarding the OP:
As for the former XP system being to the benefit of low level players, you're not exactly correct. It was, objectively speaking, to everyone's benefit to gain more XP at an increasing rate. Yet we must keep this in relative terms. Relatively speaking, it was much to the detriment of low gen characters because the rate of growth was constantly increasing, giving more and better gear to higher generation characters at an increasing rate. This is called positive feedback, and in the real world, any such system is broken. Electric circuits, wildlife populations, anything that gets bigger at an increasing rate with nothing to keep it in check is dangerous. For our game, it's similarly detrimental. The only limitation involved is what a character can use/wear at any given time. That's a pretty weak balancing factor.

So yes, you're right that this XP system favors high gen characters the most. They lost the most, but they also have far, far more generations and heirlooms already. The current "fix" is good because at least it has curbed the growth rate of the ridiculously high gen folks, but that's about the only thing that was solved. Furthermore, low gen folks are now crippled like high-gen, so they do not have the capacity to gain what others did over the high-XP days of the previous version/last five months.

Limitation by what a character can use is exactly the point though. Let's take the extreme: Sword and board cavalry. For all of his equipment, he'll probably have a total of 7 types of equipment, that's generation 22 before he can have absolutely every piece of gear heirloomed. After generation 22, you no longer get any benefits for retiring, what you get is versatility in ones choice of gear, as once you hit gen 25, even though you have another masterwork, you're sure as hell not going to be using any more than you did at gen 22.

While you may call it curbing the growth rate, even if they reset the database, the "no-lifers" are still going to have, four months(how long it's been since .20 came out) from now, nearly every bit of the advantage as they do currently. What I mean is this: Assuming everyone plays just as much as they do now, 4 months from now there will be fewer heirlooms throughout all of crpg than there are now. This is possibly a good thing, sure (I'd argue the best thing to do currently is make heirlooms easier for everyone, but that's another thread). But because of the near linear leveling speed, the people that were gen 3-7 are going to find themselves with quite a few heirlooms less. Meanwhile the people who are currently gen 20+, are going to be taking into battle the same exact amount of loomed gear as they are now. Which means that the people this system is trying to "nerf" isn't going to affect them on the battlefield, but it's going to put heirlooms in fewer casual player's hands.



I wish we could get someone to put up a graph of time played:heirlooms used for both the old system and new system with only a 1x multiplier.

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

I wish we could get someone to put up a graph of time played:heirlooms used for both the old system and new system with only a 1x multiplier.

Here you go. First graph represents the number of ticks you've got to get to advance from lvl 1 to lvl 31 for generations 1-16, second one converts it to hours of x1 multiplier.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


ED:Ok, i've put the cap point on the wrong generation, but that doesn't change the general trend of those two plots.

[Elmetiacos]

The people who were benefiting most from 10% XP bonus weren't people with "no life" who resemble the bald snack munching guy from that Warcraft episode of South Park but the people who beat the Hell out of the retirement system before the previous patch, when you could retire at level 15 every week. That's the problem with 10%; it favours an old established elite who were around back then and who got to generation 10 or 20 when it was still easy to do it.