Steel pick 13 str

[Kafein]

Pierce and blunt are supposed to be what you use against heavily armored targets though.

I don't see any GS or glaive hero pulling out a blunt or pierce weapon when they are fighting a tincan.

[Leshma]

Because GS or Glaive are already too damn expensive to carry a sidearm with them. Also extra weight means impaired S key ability which is crucial component of every twohander's skill.

[rustyspoon]

Pierce and blunt are supposed to be what you use against heavily armored targets though.

Except we're talking about CRPG here. Unless you only fight naked people, blunt/pierce is a dramatically better damage type than cut.

Cut weapons get hit hard by any type of armor. Even at only 20 armor, there's a significant difference between cut and pierce/blunt.

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I wish the damage system was redone where each damage type was great against one tier of armor, decent against another tier and terrible against one tier. It would increase weapon diversity and also get away from the "1 type fits all" approach that we have now.

So for example just so you can see what I'm talking about:

Cut - great against light armor, decent against medium, terrible against plate
Pierce - terrible against light, great against medium, decent against plate
Blunt - decent against light, terrible against medium, great against plate

Anyway, something that requires some type of decision other than: "I want my weapon to be long, fast and weak" or "I want my weapon to do a fuck-ton of damage to anyone."

[Piok]

Still pick is so balanced.
Invisible weapon of spamitar speed and punch as becdeOP which could be used by ultraagiwhores with ultrahigh shield skill.
Kinngrim could easily kill balanced build in higher tier armor(rus lammelar + bascinet) with 3hits with 4ps. Something that 4ps agiwhore with katana can only dream of not to mention omnipotent forcefield.
How many hits it will take for balanced build wit 6 or 7 PS to take down anyone with steelpick?
Be glad Muricans that peoples on NA does not discovered OPiness of SteelPick yet.

[Kafein]

Because GS or Glaive are already too damn expensive to carry a sidearm with them. Also extra weight means impaired S key ability which is crucial component of every twohander's skill.

Nice trolling.

Also price doesn't matter. It is a simple fact that high cut weapons with typical 2h/pole str builds inflict more than enough damage to deal with any kind of armor effectively.

[Tomas]

The problem is that cut weapons are arbitrarily given much higher base damage in order to make them higher damage against naked peasants but this then negates a lot of the difference between the 2 against heavier armour.

Compare the Fighting Pick against the One Handed Battle Axe.

Both weigh 1.5, have similar lengths (80vs76) and have a similar mass distribution (wooden handle, metal head).  Theoretically therefore they should be swung by the with the same force yet the the fighting Pick does just 24 pierce whilst the axe does 34 Cut.

Average damage (at 6PS, 130wpf) vs the various armour ratings is as follows

Armour: Pick: Axe
0: 41: 56
10: 35: 47
20: 29: 38
30: 24: 31
40: 19: 24
50: 14: 18
60: 10: 13
70: 8: 9
80: 6: 8

So despite being pretty much the same weapon but with a different head (supposedly for different situations) the One Handed Battle Axe is clearly the better weapon all round.

cRPG weapons will never be balanced whilst stats are decided on an arbitrary basis and according to whim.  There needs to be a systematic method of assigning damage and speeds to weapons based on their physical characteristics (weight, length and center of gravity).  Once that's done you can either keep the current system but give cut weapons a % damage boost to make them better vs naked peasants or you can come up with new formulas to add the variation between the damage types.  Only then will you have a balanced system though.

[Leshma]

This isn't about pierce vs cut vs blunt damage type. It's about the fact that Steel Pick has lower requirement than Military Pick and I don't see a reason for it.

[Freland]

Compare the Fighting Pick against the One Handed Battle Axe.

One costs 1500 gold and nobody uses it and the other costs 6000 gold. I mean come on you couldn't have picked worse weapons to compare. I am really looking forward t your comparison between the 2h Pratice Sword and the Danish Greatsword.
Sorry for derailing this further, Leshma

[Kafein]

This isn't about pierce vs cut vs blunt damage type. It's about the fact that Steel Pick has lower requirement than Military Pick and I don't see a reason for it.

1. The military pick is longer (and iirc heavier)
2. The military pick is a better weapon (see 1.)

[Leshma]

Military pick is 70 length, while Steel Pick is 64. Despite that, they are both of the same weight (2). I disagree that Military pick is better weapons, 2 pierce damage less isn't worth those extra 6 length. Both weapons are short anyway.

[Falka]

The problem is that cut weapons are arbitrarily given much higher base damage in order to make them higher damage against naked peasants but this then negates a lot of the difference between the 2 against heavier armour.

Compare the Fighting Pick against the One Handed Battle Axe.

(click to show/hide)

Both weigh 1.5, have similar lengths (80vs76) and have a similar mass distribution (wooden handle, metal head).  Theoretically therefore they should be swung by the with the same force yet the the fighting Pick does just 24 pierce whilst the axe does 34 Cut.

Average damage (at 6PS, 130wpf) vs the various armour ratings is as follows

Armour: Pick: Axe
0: 41: 56
10: 35: 47
20: 29: 38
30: 24: 31
40: 19: 24
50: 14: 18
60: 10: 13
70: 8: 9
80: 6: 8

So despite being pretty much the same weapon but with a different head (supposedly for different situations) the One Handed Battle Axe is clearly the better weapon all round.

cRPG weapons will never be balanced whilst stats are decided on an arbitrary basis and according to whim.  There needs to be a systematic method of assigning damage and speeds to weapons based on their physical characteristics (weight, length and center of gravity).  Once that's done you can either keep the current system but give cut weapons a % damage boost to make them better vs naked peasants or you can come up with new formulas to add the variation between the damage types.  Only then will you have a balanced system though.

It's true when you compare those 2 weapons. But compare steel pick with any 1h sword except mil cleaver. "cut weapons are given arbitrarily much higher base damage"? Really?

[San]

Be glad Muricans that peoples on NA does not discovered OPiness of SteelPick yet.

I lol'd. All the steel pick users moved on for a reason.

1h cut weapons just need to be buffed. The base levels are too low for any practical use unless you have a masterwork 1h. You barely see 28-30 cut on peasant 2h/poles. Buffing 1h cut by a few points won't increase damage that much, but it will drastically reduce the glance, but stun hits.

[Falka]

1h cut weapons just need to be buffed. The base levels are too low for any practical use unless you have a masterwork 1h. You barely see 28-30 cut on peasant 2h/poles. Buffing 1h cut by a few points won't increase damage that much, but it will drastically reduce the glance, but stun hits.

Yup, buff my 9 PS 1h build with MW arabian (36 dmg - plain HBS has the same dmg) 

[Piok]

Go away with constant buffing of 1h. Only monstrosity like steelpick need some adjusting.
But must agree with some people that 2h buff was unnecessary.

[San]

Yup, buff my 9 PS 1h build with MW arabian (36 dmg - plain HBS has the same dmg) 

I'm talking about 1hs with already low cut damage: 26-30, +2, maybe +1 for the higher weaps to keep internal balance. A lot of the pierce/blunt need to be slightly weakened. Below 28 pierce/blunt gets into the crappy territory for such short weapons, though.