Secondary weapon mode: melee bow

[matt2507]

Small personal experiment: use a bow as a melee weapon with the secondary mode.
This simply transforms some bow into melee weapon, some as 1H, others as 2H.

I think after all the nerfs that archers sudden, this feature would be welcome.
In addition, it would be very simple to implement since I provide the code (maybe not perfect).

The only problem I encountered is that the shot is given in the direction of the string, if the devs find a solution..

(click to show/hide)

Short Bow:
-Type: 1H
-weapon length: 60
-weight: 2
-speed rating: 96
-swing damage: 10 blunt

Bow:
-Type: 2H
-weapon length: 88
-weight: 2
-speed rating: 96
-swing damage: 10 blunt

Nomad Bow:
-Type: 1H
-weapon length: 50
-weight: 2.3
-speed rating: 95
-swing damage: 10 blunt

Tatar Bow:
-Type: 1H
-weapon length: 56
-weight: 2.3
-speed rating: 95
-swing damage: 10 blunt

Horn Bow:
-Type: 1H
-weapon length: 58
-weight: 2.5
-speed rating: 94
-swing damage: 12 blunt

Yumi:
-Type: 2H
-weapon length: 143
-weight: 3
-speed rating: 93
-swing damage: 13 blunt

Rus Bow:
-Type: 2H
-weapon length: 88
-weight: 3.5
-speed rating: 92
-swing damage: 14 blunt

Long Bow:
-Type: 2H
-weapon length: 106
-weight: 4
-speed rating: 92
-swing damage: 16 blunt

Code: (module_items.py) [Select]

["short_bow", "Short_Bow", [("short_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(75) | accuracy(96) | shoot_speed(37) | thrust_damage(18 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["short_bow_melee", "Short_Bow", [("short_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(96)|weapon_length(60)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["hunting_bow", "Bow", [("bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(72) | accuracy(96) | shoot_speed(37) | thrust_damage(20 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["hunting_bow_melee", "Bow", [("bow_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(96)|weapon_length(88)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["nomad_bow", "Nomad_Bow", [("nomad_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(69) | accuracy(96) | shoot_speed(38) | thrust_damage(21 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["nomad_bow_melee", "Nomad_Bow", [("nomad_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(95)|weapon_length(50)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["khergit_bow", "Tatar_Bow", [("tatar_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(66) | accuracy(97) | shoot_speed(38) | thrust_damage(22 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["khergit_bow_melee", "Tatar_Bow", [("tatar_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(95)|weapon_length(56)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["strong_bow", "Horn_Bow", [("horn_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,
728 , weight(2.5)|difficulty(5)|spd_rtng(60) | accuracy(97) | shoot_speed(39) | thrust_damage(24 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["strong_bow_melee", "Horn_Bow", [("horn_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2.5)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(94)|weapon_length(58)| swing_damage(12,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["yumi", "Yumi", [("yumi_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(3)|difficulty(6)|spd_rtng(60) | accuracy(100) | shoot_speed(35) | thrust_damage(26 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["yumi_melee", "Yumi", [("yumi_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(3)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(93)|weapon_length(143)| swing_damage(13,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["war_bow", "Rus_Bow", [("rus_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(3.5)|difficulty(6)|spd_rtng(56) | accuracy(99) | shoot_speed(39) | thrust_damage(28 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["war_bow_melee", "Rus_Bow", [("rus_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(3.5)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(92)|weapon_length(88)| swing_damage(14,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["long_bow", "Long_Bow", [("long_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(4)|difficulty(6)|spd_rtng(50) | accuracy(103) | shoot_speed(40) | thrust_damage(31 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["long_bow", "Long_Bow", [("long_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(4)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(92)|weapon_length(106)| swing_damage(16,blunt),imodbits_bow ],


note: melee item should always be below the bow which it depends for the "itp_next_item_as_melee" flag.

[no_rules_just_play]

how is this realistic?

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

If an axe hit that, it would break in half.

In my opinion. No this should not be added.

[Panos]

Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.

[Cris]

I like it

If an axe hit that, it would break in half.

In my opinion. No this should not be added.

The same applies to any wooden melee weapon (like staff), or thin blades bending, armor being damages as it gets hit and many other realistic mechanics this games lack.

With the right stats it could be a great idea. I would not give bows the melee attributes of any viable melee weapon.

Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.

That would only apply for Yumi bow and below. Longbow and Rus bow users already use a 0 slot weapon. Again, with the right stats it wont make a difference.

 Good archers already don't run out of arrows so it should affect the amount of missiles that much.

[matt2507]

It's like the staff, the pike, the long spear or other lance, it should not be able to parry and yet they do it when it is easily removable.

reason: gameplay

[matt2507]

Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.

no because the bow has always the same number of slots. This is true for 1 slot bow, but this is not a real weapon. In addition, the stats will have lower when bows are smaller so it is in their interest to take a secondary weapon with a 1slot bow.

In addition, the difference between 2 or 3 arrow stack is not to be taken into account since in general it does not finish the second at the end of a round.

[Panos]

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[Hunter_the_Honourable]

I like it

The same applies to any wooden melee weapon (like staff), or thin blades bending, armor being damages as it gets hit and many other realistic mechanics this games lack.

With the right stats it could be a great idea. I would not give bows the melee attributes of any viable melee weapon.

Watching that video and seeing the speed on it, even with 14 blunt that would be enough to out swing and do enough damage to people that it would just become silly. If the bow was unable to block then I would be a tiny tiny tiny bit more infavour for this but then archers would just spam spam spam so it wouldn't matter.

And yes I know the speed on it would be changed but even at 90 it would be to fast.

[Butan]

Its in no way realistic (even if some hardwood could block blades) but like others said, it is the same for all wooden weapons and all greatly smaller weapons (stick blocking a flamberge anyone?).

It would give archers incentive to melee fight instead of kiting (yes, they still try to kite as much as they can even after the kiting nerf), and they will be able to defend themselves better.

This "melee mode" flag should be on every bows IMO, but with the blunt damage of a wooden stick, so they cant duel meleeist efficiently but can block and finish/injure enemies.


Then, if it "unbalances" the game, just put every bows at 2 slots, so they cant block with a 1 slot bow, 1 quiver, and pull out a danish greatsword out of their asses (which is something some archers already does...).

Also, with the actual weight of arrows, bringing a 3rd quiver with a 1 slot bow melee mode would be a good choice for spamming them, but would be COMPLETELY impossible to kite.



The only downside I see with this is, good archers often just block with their melee weapon, so that would give them even more of a window of opportunity to release that last arrow, then do a quick melee mode block, block while going back and when out of reach, go back to archery and shoot, etc...

So it would need to be perfectly balanced to implement to the game, so that good archers doesnt become super OP / impossible to reach.



P.S.: the video shows the "concept" of melee mode on bows. DAMAGE and SPEED arent decided by matt, he is only suggesting the OPTION TO have melee mode: exact stats will be decided by more responsible persons.

[Torben]

+1 for the effort,  not sure how it would be in game,  but archers need some love.

[no_rules_just_play]

ok pikes should break, and im a piker that approves that. but multiple pikes stabbing at you should not be blockable (i made a thread about this and about all other formation fail like shieldwalls, pikewalls and archerlines that dont make sense in crpg because ninjas do better), you can now retardly block 100 pikes by just downblocking, but i wouldnt be very realistic to just charge a wall of pikes wouldnt it? same for horse charges and others.
but still, we are talking here about bows: its a thin piece of wood that is used in fantasy fiction to swing around and hit people with. we are talking here about BOWS not a single archer would think about trying to hit someone or something with his bow. he either payed alot for this piece of master work or he did it himself and knows how fragile it is. if you want to use a bow to hit somebody: hit him once (doing no damage unless to naked people) and find your bow either broken or just atleast unusable. the wood of a bow is meant to be flexible in the way you pull at it, not flexible to hit with it. and lets not mention the thin cord that is used to shoot your arrow, if that doesnt break...

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/pikewalls/

[matt2507]

Watching that video and seeing the speed on it, even with 14 blunt that would be enough to out swing and do enough damage to people that it would just become silly. If the bow was unable to block then I would be a tiny tiny tiny bit more infavour for this but then archers would just spam spam spam so it wouldn't matter.

And yes I know the speed on it would be changed but even at 90 it would be to fast.

1: I make my test in native, so my archer have skills in melee, which is not the case for most archer on cRPG. In addition, it has been 20 blunt damage in the video. If you look at the stats I posted, it does not have this value.

2: In the video, the bow has 97 speed and I use it with a light equipment, which is not the case with the weight added to bows lately. In addition, as I said, my archer was probably the wpf in melee, which is not the case in cRPG, which will reduce the speed yet.

The purpose of this is mainly that the archers can defend themselves, but this is in no way offensive purposes. Remove the ability to parry would give this a no interest.

[matt2507]

we are talking here about BOWS not a single archer would think about trying to hit someone or something with his bow. he either payed alot for this piece of master work or he did it himself and knows how fragile it is.

I think if I was in a situation with a big barbarian with an axe in front of me and was prepared to kill me in one hit, I would not hesitate to throw my bow in his face rather than take the time to out my sword.

Although, in cRPG, most archers who die in melee die during the time they take their secondary weapon.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Most archers already have a melee weapon even if it is the 0 slot hammer or pic they still do surprising damage, so please don't say archers can't defend them selves they have a melee weapon as shit as it is they can still defend them selves.

Also you want to make the Rusbow easymodebow the same speed as my axe? Nice now archers are going to out swing me along with everyone else! Plus all blunt weapons have knockdown, if bows get knockdown then that will be just utter nonsense and madness.

I think if I was in a situation with a big barbarian with an axe in front of me and was prepared to kill me in one hit, I would not hesitate to throw my bow in his face rather than take the time to out my sword.

Although, in cRPG, most archers who die in melee die during the time they take their secondary weapon.

So do pikers and other people who have supportive weapons yet they deal with it.