So, is Horse Archery Skill really Balanced?

[jtobiasm]

Buff HA?  This is the most obnoxious class in the game. You don't need to shoot at speed when you can play like a kiting archer on steroids. You just park yourself a few metres away from enemies and pewpew. They really shine when theres few players, or if they manage to survive until towards the end of the round, then they can rape if they play their class well

Imagine there is no horse..you want a archer that zips around like with a speedhack and shoots accurately? How about no.

Yet you're not taking into consideration the damage HAs do and also we can't really sit next to enemies when there is Archers, Xbow men and also as a HA you're always getting chased by other cav.

Of course a HA is going to shine late on in a round, but whos fault is that? It's not the HAs. It's melee guys fault if they're not getting cover/camping it out till the flags come up.

[Malaclypse]

Courser is a really bad choice for a horse archer, even if you have 5 Horse Archery. You actually WANT slower horses as they affect the reticule much less. Steppe, Desert, Arabian, or any of the armored horses are perfect.

[Rumblood]

Courser is a really bad choice for a horse archer, even if you have 5 Horse Archery. You actually WANT slower horses as they affect the reticule much less. Steppe, Desert, Arabian, or any of the armored horses are perfect.

Wrong. Ride a slow horse, get destroyed by normal cavalry as they shrug off your pea shooter, because they will catch you and before you can put 4-5 arrows into their horse or 6-8 arrows into them. Sumpter, Steppe, and Desert you are just asking to be ridden down. Arabian? Sure, but only until you run out of gold because archer + cavalry = most expensive class in game.

[Malaclypse]

Wrong. Ride a slow horse, get destroyed by normal cavalry as they shrug off your pea shooter, because they will catch you and before you can put 4-5 arrows into their horse or 6-8 arrows into them. Sumpter, Steppe, and Desert you are just asking to be ridden down. Arabian? Sure, but only until you run out of gold because archer + cavalry = most expensive class in game.

Wait, am I wrong about Courser being a really bad choice for mounted ranged due to the effect of velocity on accuracy?

Stick with the infantry if you have sustainability trouble then, what I usually do on my pea shooter anyhow- just float around their flanks, if it gets too hot weave into the mass. The Desert and Steppe horse also both have pretty phenomenal maneuver (I wouldn't really recommend a Sumpter horse for anything.. ever), meaning that while a lancer on a typical Destrier or Courser may be able to catch up to you in terms of speed, if you're at all aware of them they can easily be avoided. Also, you didn't mention anything at all about armored horses! Personally I think they are the best choice available for mounted ranged due to the fact that you'll be able to sustain more harassment from bad ranged and melee who aim for your mount rather than you and can use the horse as a weapon in addition to your projectiles.

As for the money, yeah that might be an issue if you're just starting out in the mod, but come on, if you've been playing for more than 6 months and you're still broke that's your own fault, it's pretty easy to make and save money, even more so if you sell your loom points. A good night of playing in cloth armor with a medium tier weapon brings me in 40k+ easily, which I send to my cav playing or heavy armor asshole alts. You just have to be willing to not wear the most expensive crap all the time.

[Rumblood]

Lancers are a minority on servers nowadays. 2 handed cavalry especially will just eat you up.

Easy to make money? Sure, every class I've played OTHER than archer RAKES in the gold. Horse Archer?

Ragged Outfit
Hide Boots
Tatar bow
NORMAL arrows
Yanmadao
Steppe horse

That is my break even build. As a foot archer I get to upgrade to Tatar arrows in stead of a horse!

Where in the hell is all this expensive gear you are talking about??

Oh yeah, I'm not selling my loom points or being forced into retirement just to maintain average gear in my chosen class.

[Malaclypse]

I said Cloth armor with a medium tier weapon, not Leather Armor with two of em, arrows, and a horse, man. Also it's pretty strange that you're only breaking even on that loadout, seems like it's just bad luck now that I look at the actual max upkeep for it.

HA is an expensive class, definitely not for 1st gen players, but what I'm saying is that it really requires minimal commitment to raise money. Note that I'm saying it's easy to make money- I didn't say it was easy to make it for Horse Archers in full loadout (just like it's not easy for two-handers in full heavy armor to do so), just that it's easy to make it and then send to your cav characters to be eaten up. What you do- what I do- is play with a loadout that makes me money, then send it to characters that require cash money millionaires to play. Pelt Coat + Qstaff will net you a good chunk of change from a single night of play, and is a lot of fun to boot.

Also, I should mention that I personally think upkeep is a really dumb way to balance things, but unless someone comes up with a better way to balance Cav, Ranged, Infantry, Ranged Cav- entirely different classes with vastly different mechanics and playstyles- it's what we have, and it's easy to get around with a small amount of work. If it were up to me there'd be no upkeep, no heirlooms, no gold at all.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

but only until you run out of gold because archer + cavalry = most expensive class in game.

lol no, anything with a plated charger and plate=most expensive thing ingame, And my horsethrower was way more expensive than any HA not ridding an armored horse.

Buff ht please.

[Leesin]

My main is HA and sure it definitely is underpowered stats wise but I don't really care because I can still make people rage. I use MW Horn Bow and MW Tatar arrows with 5PD, definitely takes some hits to kill but I ride a Destrier for a reason, it's tough and also a great weapon to smash Infantry with. It still has fairly good speed, enough for me to evade and shoot other cav and vs other HA, especially at longer ranges, it is a godsend as it takes them quite a few arrows to kill it where as most times I can easily kill their weak little horse then close the distance to finish them or just leave them in the middle of no where to go and annoy the rest of their team.

 I'm often high on the team scoreboard when I do play and I hardly play anymore, so HA is definitely effective, even if you can wound a ton of enemies and get 0 kills, you've helped the team toward victory. I can go and dismount most of their cavalry and I've already taken an advantage away from them without getting any kills.

[Macropus]

how come black_corsair_RS  does not complain? he always seems to shoot me on high speed and pretty accurate and pretty painfuly.

That only means Corsair is one of the best horse archers, so his performance is good despite of HA as a class being underpowered.

[Prpavi]

All you HA crying ybout repairs, maybe you should think about that when delaying rounds till the very end upping everybodys chance of repairs including yours.   

[Ujin]

 I would only support a HA buff ( and they deserve it)  if the damage that arrows do to heavy horses is reduced. Someone is supposed to hunt the HA down for you, infantry .

[Macropus]

All you HA crying ybout repairs, maybe you should think about that when delaying rounds till the very end upping everybodys chance of repairs including yours.   

WTF. The problem is that repairs cost more for HA than for most other players, how come that linked with upping the chance of repairs for everyone?

I would only support a HA buff ( and they deserve it)  if the damage that arrows do to heavy horses is reduced. Someone is supposed to hunt the HA down for you, infantry .

Agree, horse archers aren't supposed to do much damage to tincans IMO.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

I agree with you that horse archers seem to be underpowered (never played one myself). But like leesin said, even in their underpowered state they can be very effective and a decisive factor in a battle.

All the weaknesses of current HA has still it's counter in their ultimate kiting ability. From the perspective of any non ranged infantry you can't actively do anything to hurt mounted ranged, you can only hope for a mistake while he at the same can damage you. This unique bonus justify the weak stats, imo.

Also if the timing is perfect charging a single enemy and shooting him directly before the bump is very powerful, ofc. can result in a mistake...

[Shaksie]

I agree with this! Buff HA!
Also, I think the perspective should be fixed; arrows fired should not travel at the exact angle and direction that you were at when you shot it due to momentum etc.
Similarly, having something hurled toward you at speed from a horse which is also at speed would greatly increase the damage; I think this should (to a degree) be added.

Finally, I know this is quite likely a solution with very many flaws but reducing horse upkeep could slightly reduce HA penalty in that they would be more inclined to using a horse that has four legs and two eyes.

[Pejlaen]

you have to consider the tactical edge HAs can have as well, I agree that they should be buffed though