Poll

Keep this program or not?

Make it open source or announce it if you use it
Unfair Remove it
Keep it as is
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/cheating-or-no/msg670358/#msg670358

Author Topic: Cheating or No?  (Read 12680 times)

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Offline Vibe

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2012, 12:09:01 pm »
+1
When you start a script you don't share it with everyone if its not even near working yet.. I haven't seen the thing myself yet, but it seems completely useless for the moment because it doesn't work yet. Nords also have acces to this i think, and devs gave it a go to continue developing it... If you remove the "i want drama part" for a moment, is there a problem here?

None of the factions has had an advantage of this tool before, no one has advantage of it right now (since it doesn't work yet), and its not limited to 1 alliance...

Nobody said it doesn't work, only some parts don't work. For now it makes you see more than the game currently wants you to see. What I'm doing here is presenting my opinion on this nice little cheat thingy Wolves came up with, and scratching my head how was this not forced by the devs to be made public or at least more people invited from the other factions, while the eastern UIF abused it's "dev approved" status and used it almost exclusively by themselves.

PS amazed by the bias here, feels like the time I actually bothered arguing with UIF, except it's the other side this time, talking to walls here anyway

Offline Andswaru

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2012, 12:12:08 pm »
0
Sure, i was only offered access to the "beta" after i informed kinngrim that uif were considering quitting, and since he's scared of his neighbours so much he started looking for new allies.
So before it was known that the UIF were quiting this was an exclusive anti uif tool.
Kinda funny how the holier than tho we do not need or use any form of cheating side, as per the advertising material i was given at the start of the round, was actually "cheating" also.

See you all next round.
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2012, 12:15:09 pm »
+1
Then again there was no reason to not mention it to the public and make this whole matter a bit less suspicious. Even if approved by devs, I use my own eyes to look on things. This thing gives you an advantage. Doesn't matter small or great advantage, it's still an advantage. Doesn't matter how long it has been in use, every day or week counts in Strategus. Fact is you (or rather, the Wolves) kept it silent to others.

Also if it was only intended for the devs as of now, why is it shared almost exclusively amongst eastern UIF ?

Perhaps Kinngrimm shared it with the clans he came across most often since he was after feedback?   If the aim was truly to gain an advantage then it wouldn't be "almost" exclusive to Eastern Bloc factions, it would be 100% exclusive to them.  We would also all be in the same faction with as many people as possible registered.

I'm not saying that Kinngrimm was right not to share it publicly, although I can understand his reluctance to share a program that even his own allies barely use.  But this witch hunt for him not publicly sharing it is in my opinion ridiculous.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2012, 12:21:11 pm »
0
Perhaps Kinngrimm shared it with the clans he came across most often since he was after feedback?   If the aim was truly to gain an advantage then it wouldn't be "almost" exclusive to Eastern Bloc factions, it would be 100% exclusive to them.  We would also all be in the same faction with as many people as possible registered.

I'm not saying that Kinngrimm was right not to share it publicly, although I can understand his reluctance to share a program that even his own allies barely use.  But this witch hunt for him not publicly sharing it is in my opinion ridiculous.

You don't need to share it, you can however announce it on forums that you're working and experimenting with such a thing. All this not done makes it look like you wanted to abuse it. Not to mention that apart from Nords (who were offered after they said they quit, read Andswaru's post up), it was 100% exclusive to eastern bloc.

Offline Idzo

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2012, 12:28:04 pm »
-1
See you all next round.


PS amazed by the bias here, feels like the time I actually bothered arguing with UIF, except it's the other side this time, talking to walls here anyway

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You don't need to share it, you can however announce it on forums that you're working and experimenting with such a thing. All this not done makes it look like you wanted to abuse it. Not to mention that apart from Nords (who were offered after they said they quit, read Andswaru's post up), it was 100% exclusive to eastern bloc.


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Offline Molly

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2012, 12:38:21 pm »
+1
I have nothing really that I wanna add to the topic...

Merely wanna say that I am fascinated by so many people still bothered  8-)
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Offline Niemand

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2012, 12:40:17 pm »
-4
Eyecandy script was made public to everyone. I didn't see a single announcement for your shit on the cRPG forums. Not a word said. Only a select few knew about it. You were open about this tool? Good excuse. Offering it to one enemy clan and to a shitload of your allies.

So you are flaming/raging/whining because you were not invited to the party-preparations? Poor vibe... you must really have no friends at all if that is important to you.

DUDE! Let them finish that thing before they make it public. I (and I am sure I am not alone) HATE it when dev-companies sell games/programs that are not nearly done. Instead they are pushing a 2GB patch in the first week after the release. And why? Just because morons like you are not able to wait a bit longer for the game to finish be cleanly done[edited].
This is why I do not make any deadlines in my projects. it takes as long as it takes. its ready when its ready. and it will be released when its ready. Until then: Shut tha fuck up.


Was it shared to all your allies before everyone else though? Of course the developer is going to see it before everyone else. Let's not be dumb here. Not to mention the eye candy thing is mostly visuals and not a direct advantage to your entire faction.
Shut it. Shure I trust my allies more then all the other jealous whiners out there.

And man. As much as you whine, I would ban you from that project, just to enjoy your whining and jealous raging for the rest of your life. :D


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Offline Molly

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2012, 12:44:17 pm »
+2
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2012, 12:44:34 pm »
+1
Except I don't even play strat and am merely expressing my own opinion on this cheat thingy, so good point there on me "raging/whining" for not being invited to a third party for strat, lmfao :lol:

Offline Molly

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2012, 12:46:56 pm »
+3
Except I don't even play strat and am merely expressing my own opinion on this cheat thingy, so good point there on me "raging/whining" for not being invited to a third party for strat, lmfao :lol:
Niemand is known for having issues with people having their own opinion...  :mrgreen:
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2012, 01:00:06 pm »
+2
Then again there was no reason to not mention it to the public and make this whole matter a bit less suspicious.
yes there was, i wanted to give a nearly completted and usable tool out and not a half finished something

Also if it was only intended for the devs as of now, why is it shared almost exclusively amongst eastern UIF ?
when you are trying to accomplish something in work or in private life, you normaly have a group which supports you in one way or the other, people who help you accomplishing your idears if you can't do it all alone. This is here the case too. In the first month it was only Guika and me as tester. Then taking in more Wolves to see if it works with more people, then yes those i know closely from my alliance, but less for politcal reasons within strat, but i just knew those lads and we needed to see if different factions "as an option within the websites" works. Then admins and devs have been informed after being able to show a first alpha, then gradually other factions were included, again those i were closer to, due to different factors, it is just human nature as it works out everywhere.

Sure, i was only offered access to the "beta" after i informed kinngrim that uif were considering quitting, and since he's scared of his neighbours so much he started looking for new allies.
wow, and i really thought we got along while we chatted for like 2 hours in steam, didn't know you are that paranoid.
Btw you didn't inform me about quitting in the first place that was cooties, afterwards i started talking to you about the reasons and yes also to get you to stay, but i also told you i don't care if as enemy or neutral or whatever. I offered you a cease fire, which i would have discussed with Eastern Block if you would have been interested, wait actually i did discuss that with Rogue and i believe Tyr and they have said if you would be interested why not, they still had some respect left for Nords.

Andswaru, i mentioned to you how different it was how you approached me in steam and here, i really wonder why that is? Couldn't you tell me there your opinions, but needed to sugar code them?

The addon is still not complettly operational, you often need to scroll in and out or refresh so that the shared data is shown at all. As there had been many versions since start, from the around 20 guys in my faction only have like 4-5 the latest version installed, the others aren't compatible with the new data base interface, the automated update for firefox aint working yet, sometimes you see doubled spots of the same party and other not yet solved visual problems and other stuff on the website needs to be reworked, that but all stands atm in the background as Guika is implementing atm a Diplomatic & Contract System. Sure these things have influence onto the game experience and give different advantages, i never denied that, but till the final product isn't ready and you couldn't judge the whole system as it is supposed to be, i would ask for some patience and goodwill and perhaps in the end you could see the benefits which come out of it.

...All this not done makes it look like you wanted to abuse it.
exactly, thats why devs and admins had been informed about it and that is why there is a posssibility to create your own faction instead of jsut taking everyone into one faction  :rolleyes:

Not to mention that apart from Nords (who were offered after they said they quit, read Andswaru's post up), it was 100% exclusive to eastern bloc.
seeing connections where there aren't any are we again? conspiracy nuts with tin foil hats are surrounding us in the internetz that is my resume. Nords were offered this while they haven't yet decided onto leaving. This was given freely without them agreeing onto going into alliance with Wolves or wanting anything in return ...

Except I don't even play strat and am merely expressing my own opinion ...
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Offline chadz

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2012, 03:31:24 pm »
+14
First of all, I have not officially commented on this yet - on purpose. I wanted to keep it in a grey areay (no pun intended). Which means using it is not forbidden and will not be punished, but it could be "outlawed" eventually. The clear difference to multiaccounting here is that it has been stated multiple times that multiaccing/acc sharing is against the rules, and if you do it, you're fucked.

In general, I am usually open to client side customisations. Strategus (at least the map part) was created so it's very easy to read the data automatically. I could have encrypted or obfuscated it to make it really hard to decypher stuff, but decided against it because I actually like people modifying it - like Chort did, for example.

Is this thing an advantage? Hell yes it is. But having active players is also an advantage, that doesn't mean you have to give active players to the enemy. That's why I also see no real issue with not giving that program out. For me, a line would be crossed when it would automatically log into accounts, or do automated actions without actually having to be online (=botting).

My gut feeling is that this is very advanced, but at this point, is not against the rules, and I like it that people actually put so much effort into client side customisations. So in my opinion, it's ok (although I WILL nerf the view range on mountains)

However, if the community as a whole decides that they don't want this to be allowed, I will accept this and outlaw usage of the data like this.

PS: this is no final decision yet, either way

Offline Gingerpussy

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2012, 03:34:12 pm »
-14
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2012, 03:43:39 pm »
+4
First of all, I have not officially commented on this yet - on purpose. I wanted to keep it in a grey areay (no pun intended). Which means using it is not forbidden and will not be punished, but it could be "outlawed" eventually. The clear difference to multiaccounting here is that it has been stated multiple times that multiaccing/acc sharing is against the rules, and if you do it, you're fucked.

In general, I am usually open to client side customisations. Strategus (at least the map part) was created so it's very easy to read the data automatically. I could have encrypted or obfuscated it to make it really hard to decypher stuff, but decided against it because I actually like people modifying it - like Chort did, for example.

Is this thing an advantage? Hell yes it is. But having active players is also an advantage, that doesn't mean you have to give active players to the enemy. That's why I also see no real issue with not giving that program out. For me, a line would be crossed when it would automatically log into accounts, or do automated actions without actually having to be online (=botting).

My gut feeling is that this is very advanced, but at this point, is not against the rules, and I like it that people actually put so much effort into client side customisations. So in my opinion, it's ok (although I WILL nerf the view range on mountains)

However, if the community as a whole decides that they don't want this to be allowed, I will accept this and outlaw usage of the data like this.

PS: this is no final decision yet, either way
I find it hard to see how a program giving you an advantage should be allowed without it being publicized and freely allowed to anyone.
Anyway, Anders, can you please make a poll?
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Offline Thovex

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Re: Cheating or No?
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2012, 04:26:59 pm »
0
To Andswaru and Thovex.

U guys are incredible. Im out of words. pathetic mogoloids

I have proof you guys used BUY SCRIPT in strat 2 and more (made by a russian clan we all know)
How is this a diffrence, ur arguing that all third party programs are cheats.

PS! i never trusted the buy script so i never used it. Or that other script for forming armys with excat nr of equip. 
The truth is that third party programs have been here from the start of strategus, And u NORD complaing that this was private HAHAHA

u never told anyone about those scripts. Hypocrits and morons the lot of u

If I knew I had a buyscript I wouldn't be using www.piratepad.net to manually write down what I need which took plenty of time.  :lol:
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