Author Topic: Israeli vs. Palestinians  (Read 7864 times)

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Offline Tavuk_Bey

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2012, 02:48:10 pm »
+1
nuke both, problems = solved
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Offline baybars

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2012, 02:48:21 pm »
+7
why is it fair for america to give weapons to isreal but not anyone to give weapons to hamas? isnt palestine technically under occupation? and isnt it custom for the occupied to fight the occupier? now lets just use iran as an example, lets say they are giving weapons to hamas, how many wars have iran actually started ? and how many wars have america started and been involved in? so really america and isreal are the terrorists and war mongerers, its just funny how they media made anyone not from the west a boogyman. its just sad that most people have lost commen sence. peace on earth wont be achieved until palestine is free.

nelson mandella once said upon his release from jail :-  But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2012, 03:14:14 pm »
+1
why is it fair for america to give weapons to isreal but not anyone to give weapons to hamas? isnt palestine technically under occupation? and isnt it custom for the occupied to fight the occupier? now lets just use iran as an example, lets say they are giving weapons to hamas, how many wars have iran actually started ? and how many wars have america started and been involved in? so really america and isreal are the terrorists and war mongerers, its just funny how they media made anyone not from the west a boogyman. its just sad that most people have lost commen sence. peace on earth wont be achieved until palestine is free.

nelson mandella once said upon his release from jail :-  But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.
Most people in this thread have a 20 year old view of the public opinion. U.S. already has a huge reputation has a power hungry warmonger and no country apart from the U.S. favors Israel, since Obama even the U.S. has become pretty much neutral. In most of the EU public opinion is strongly against Israel, and so is the average news agency. Just look at everyone in this thread, clearly favouring the Palestines, that should give you a pretty good view on the public opinion.

A comparison of number of wars is really unfair between the U.S. and Iran, U.S. was the hegemonic power for the pas two decades and before that a superpower in a bipolar world and a strong proponent of the spread of liberal values through intervention and a strong proponent of international organisations, obviously they are going to fight more wars.

Offline LiorM

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2012, 04:12:26 pm »
-2
nuke both, problems = solved
Nuke you = less idiotic people...

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2012, 04:24:18 pm »
+2
Facts (History) > Opinions.

Quote
a strong proponent of the spread of liberal values through intervention and a strong proponent of international organisations, obviously they are going to fight more wars.

Yes. Nothing better than removing DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders via assassination or coups. For then to install dictators who commit mass murder and terror upon the native population, as long as they adhere corporate contracts and what not with US/British companies no one cares what kind of atrocities are committed. That sure is liberal values..

The US ever only did anything if a situation was a threat to their BUSINESS interests.
Don't forget, plenty of major American companies (other Global companies did too of course, for example Hugo Boss designed the chocolate chip cookie uniforms :P) - they were all hugely funding the chocolate chip cookies via trade etc.

(click to show/hide)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

During the Cold War

    2.1 Communist states 1944-1989
    2.2 Syria 1949
    2.3 Iran 1953
    2.4 Guatemala 1954
    2.5 Tibet 1955-70s
    2.6 Indonesia 1958
    2.7 Cuba 1959
    2.8 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960-65
    2.9 Iraq 1960-63
    2.10 Dominican Republic 1961
    2.11 South Vietnam 1963
    2.12 Brazil 1964
    2.13 Ghana 1966
    2.14 Chile 1970-73
    2.15 Argentina 1976
    2.16 Afghanistan 1979-1989
    2.17 Turkey 1980
    2.18 Poland 1980-81
    2.19 Nicaragua 1981-1990
        2.19.1 Destabilization through CIA Assets
        2.19.2 Arming the Contras
    2.20 Cambodia 1980-95
    2.21 Angola 1980s
    2.22 Philippines 1986

Since the end of the Cold War

    3.1 Iraq 1992-1996
    3.2 Afghanistan 2001
    3.3 Iraq 2002-3
    3.4 Venezuela 2002
    3.5 Palestinian Authority, 2006-present
    3.6 Somalia 2006-2007
    3.7 Iran 2005-present
    3.8 Libya 2011
    3.9 Syria 2012

Go study these historical cases...



I also want to latch on to:
Quote
strong proponent of international organisations

That one made me laugh.

The best help, the best aid, comes via private institutions, not Government.

Let's take a more recent example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/unesco-votes-to-admit-palestine-over-us-objections/2011/10/31/gIQAMleYZM_story.html

Quote from: Washington Post
NEW YORK — UNESCO voted Monday to admit Palestine into the organization as its newest member, and the United States promptly responded by cutting off funding for the agency.

That is even though that the USA is hurting their own interest and citizens by doing so.

Quote from: Washington Post
The prohibition on U.S. funding of U.N. agencies that recognize a Palestinian state was included in two pieces of legislation that were signed into law by President George H.W. Bush in 1990 and President Bill Clinton in 1994.


There's a great piece by The Daily Show in regards to the UNESCO/US-"scandal":

America's Problem with UNESCO
In this two-part report, John Oliver investigates the Obama administration's decision to stop funding UNESCO, a multinational humanitarian organization.
Part 1: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-15-2012/march-15--2012---pt--3
Part 2: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-15-2012/march-15--2012---pt--4
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Offline Christo

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2012, 04:37:17 pm »
+1
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Offline Tigero

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2012, 04:47:42 pm »
0
The World police should come and bomb the whole shit to ground, i mean they got oil and everything there bartel doo.
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The humor might be fun for u, but it is fun on behalf of others.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2012, 04:50:29 pm »
+2
Facts (History) > Opinions.
I did not state an opinion. I did not condemn or commend anything. I only stated that you cannot compare the number of wars that the U.S. or Iran started, because they are completely different countries in the world system, all my other statements are facts.

The private sector making money of a war does not have anything to do with the government in a free market country, you can't blame the U.S. for having citizens who trade with chocolate chip cookie Germany. Not sure what your point is with the entire thing.

American companies =/= American government.


(click to show/hide)
And the entire western world was cheering for them. Meanwhile Soviet Russia was also desperately trying to expand their sphere of influence as well, both convinced that the other side wanted world domination. Why would I have to study these cases exactly?

I also want to latch on to:
That one made me laugh.
It is a fact that the U.S. is a strong proponent of international organizations, they took the lead in creating most of them. All of them based on their own set of values ofcourse. What exactly makes you laugh about that simple fact?

The best help, the best aid, comes via private institutions, not Government.
What does this have to do with anything, and I mean anything, I said exactly? I can't help to get the impression that you are trying to have a discussion with me about entirely unrelated things. Read my post again, perhaps.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2012, 04:53:12 pm »
0
Actually, a large portion of native born Americans dislike the UN. It's a fairly ANTI-US organization(in the eyes of a few Americans).

Also US gives most food to foregin countries in AID. Also gives the most money and AID to countries in trouble, regardless of countries. US is quite generous, way more than a lot of other countries, but nobody gives a damn.
(Facts incoming if i can find them)
Money- http://foreignassistance.gov/CountryIntro.aspx
Food- http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21279.pdf

But if you look at the money as percentage, the US is cheap.

You can find more if you look.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 05:13:36 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Nessaj

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2012, 05:25:32 pm »
0
I did not state an opinion. I did not condemn or commend anything. I only stated that you cannot compare the number of wars that the U.S. or Iran started, because they are completely different countries in the world system, all my other statements are facts.

The private sector making money of a war does not have anything to do with the government in a free market country, you can't blame the U.S. for having citizens who trade with chocolate chip cookie Germany. Not sure what your point is with the entire thing.

American companies =/= American government.

And the entire western world was cheering for them. Meanwhile Soviet Russia was also desperately trying to expand their sphere of influence as well, both convinced that the other side wanted world domination. Why would I have to study these cases exactly?
It is a fact that the U.S. is a strong proponent of international organizations, they took the lead in creating most of them. All of them based on their own set of values ofcourse. What exactly makes you laugh about that simple fact?
What does this have to do with anything, and I mean anything, I said exactly? I can't help to get the impression that you are trying to have a discussion with me about entirely unrelated things. Read my post again, perhaps.

I wasn't attacking/asking you mate :P just stating stuff regarding the US in context to what you'd written. Nothing personal in it at all.

I didn't say other countries haven't been doing just as bad things either, but we were trying to stick to the US/Israeli/Palestinians here.

That the private sector would do it better is just my own personal comment; Free markets and less but more effective government = better world.
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Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2012, 05:46:25 pm »
+6
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2012, 07:14:00 pm »
0
But if you look at the money as percentage, the US is cheap.

You can find more if you look.

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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2012, 07:38:47 pm »
0
That's what I said. The us gives the most RAW dollars(double the next closest donor) but it's only so MINIMAL from gdp.

But that's GOVERNMENT AID. Private Donations from corporations and citizens is much more(almost double) that of comparable Government institutions. Old article before the economic bust. And no I didn't write that article :lol:

Better article to read: http://www.globalissues.org/article/35/foreign-aid-development-assistance
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2012, 07:40:29 pm »
0
That's what I said. The us gives the most RAW dollars(double the next closest donor) but it's only so MINIMAL from gdp.

Yeah I know I thought I'd just provide a graph for what you said  :P

Just wondering how much private donations are as a percentage of GDP for different countries. Haven't got the time now to try and look because of dinner but it could be interesting.

Not to mention US attracts/is a base for lots of rich people/corporations anyway so in reality it should have high private donations. Hell Bill Gates and his foundation alone probably accounts for half of the US's private donations  :P
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 07:44:37 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Israeli vs. Palestinians
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2012, 09:23:38 pm »
0
A comparison of number of wars is really unfair between the U.S. and Iran, U.S. was the hegemonic power for the pas two decades and before that a superpower in a bipolar world and a strong proponent of the spread of liberal values through intervention and a strong proponent of international organisations, obviously they are going to fight more wars.

Some would argue the spread of liberal values isn't necessarily a good thing or in fact that many of the countries needed any 'intervention' in the first place.

Double post but just read that bit.