Israeli vs. Palestinians

[Leshma]

Inb4 USA discovers an incredible new power source to fuel vehicles that's easy to get and very efficient and Allahu Akbarists are stuck with their crappy oil.

Cowboys don't approve of this message. Alternate power source bad, very bad, unless it's controlled by rich white people from Texas

[Teeth]

They can do this because all the palestinians are portrayed as terrorist/ cave men/ etc etc.

And thats how the rocket mass spam started from Gaza. See the problem here? Information is so onesided, since Palestinians don't really have a good way to spread their side of the story.

Funny how you say that information is one sided and pro Israel. While I see the exact opposite in my newspapers everyday. The news in my country atleast is extremely pro palestinian and subjective, that is why I preach unsubtle pro-Israelism to counter the horribly subjective reports of popular news. Western society has long stopped favouring Israel, barely any country in the EU does. Only in the US the jewish lobby is able to maintain a somewhat pro-Israel attitude in their government, but Obama is already reaching out more to Israel's neighbours.

All of your claims that Palestinians are a peaceful people that only wish to live in peace is complete bullshit. Peaceful coexistion being so far out of reach is as much the Palestinians fault as Israel.

also, lol @ teeth saying Hamas is illegitimate.  Guess you don't believe in democracy then?

If a majority supports terrorism, does that make terrorism right or does it reveal the power of indoctrination? Regardless, any organization that has the destruction of a peoples in its founding charter and attacks civilian targets is a terrorist organization. You also forget that since they have been elected there has been a civil war and Hamas now unofficially controls Gaza against the wishes of the government of the West bank. Hell Human Rights Watch condemned Hamas for human rights violations even against Palestiniansand they execute people left and right. Hamas is scum.

Then everyone was like "damn those Hummus terrorist people".

Now here comes the best thing. It was later confirmed by many news sources and even the UN that Israel had infact broken the truce. The Israelis used an apache helicopter during the truce to take down some Al-Qassam soldiers exercising to kidnap israeli soldiers incase of future wars (12 soldiers died). No rockets had been launched prior to that.

And thats how the rocket mass spam started from Gaza.

Regardless who started it, Hamas was firing missiles indiscriminately at civilian targets, which a full out war does not even justify. Launching missiles at non military targets is purely terrorism and yet Israel gets all the shit if they hit a school and civilians die, because Hamas was firing mortars from it. Popular opinion is a powerful weapon which somehow favours Hamas, just look at yourself, defending attacks on purely civilian targets 'because they didn't start it'. God.

[Overdriven]

Funny how you say that information is one sided and pro Israel. While I see the exact opposite in my newspapers everyday. The news in my country atleast is extremely pro palestinian and subjective, that is why I preach unsubtle pro-Israelism to counter the horribly subjective reports of popular news. Western society has long stopped favouring Israel, barely any country in the EU does. Only in the US the jewish lobby is able to maintain a somewhat pro-Israel attitude in their government, but Obama is already reaching out more to Israel's neighbours.

All of your claims that Palestinians are a peaceful people that only wish to live in peace is complete bullshit. Peaceful coexistion being so far out of reach is as much the Palestinians fault as Israel.
If a majority supports terrorism, does that make terrorism right or does it reveal the power of indoctrination? Regardless, any organization that has the destruction of a peoples in its founding charter and attacks civilian targets is a terrorist organization. You also forget that since they have been elected there has been a civil war and Hamas now unofficially controls Gaza against the wishes of the government of the West bank. Hell Human Rights Watch condemned Hamas for human rights violations even against Palestiniansand they execute people left and right. Hamas is scum.
Regardless who started it, Hamas was firing missiles indiscriminately at civilian targets, which a full out war does not even justify. Launching missiles at non military targets is purely terrorism and yet Israel gets all the shit if they hit a school and civilians die, because Hamas was firing mortars from it. Popular opinion is a powerful weapon which somehow favours Hamas, just look at yourself, defending attacks on purely civilian targets 'because they didn't start it'. God.

Many newspapers are pro-Palestine for a reason. Why is Israel even a country? In all reality it shouldn't be and the region was occupied by Palestinian's previously. They've effectively been penned in and herded and had their land sucked up by Israel for years. Add to that that they live in very poor standards and Israel completely ignores them as any form of citizen and what you effectively have is Apartheid in the area.

So the US in WW2 and the UK and many others were terrorists? As far as I can recall much methods of bombing cities to dust regardless of civilians were used then. O and Vietnam, O and Iraq/Afghanistan. What makes any other nations atrocities towards civilians any more legitimate than Palestine's? By your definition Israel carries out acts of terrorism every damn day against Palestinian civilians. They may want to target military targets but they kill a hell of a lot of civilians in doing so and that is under the hand of their leaders who are voted for. Heck one of the targets they hit last night was across the street from a UN school ffs.

Sorry but you're wrong. The west bank has a separate government for a reason, largely because they are very separate entities. But Hamas and the West Bank's leaders are both legitimately elected. Heck Hamas even has the full support of Egypt now which could be very bad for Israel. Israel also wants to oust the West Bank leader because of his push to up Palestine's status in the UN so Israel doesn't really give a shit who is selected and even if they try to oppose them diplomatically and legitimately, they still need to be quashed and pushed out of the way such is Israel's contempt for any one who opposes them.

People sympathise with Palestine simply because it's quite clear that Israel considers them nothing more than dirt that needs to be swept aside and has done since it's foundation as a country. The only reason they haven't done it is because the backlash from the international community would be very strong. But if Israel was given the opportunity they would immediately do it and I can hardly blame Hamas for what they are doing. They have hit military targets as well as civilian but fact is Israel has far superior technology so what do you expect?

[BASNAK]

Huh? When did I mention once that killing civilians is a good thing? Im just saying since Israel keeps spouting out that they want peace and truces, and yet they are breaking truces? And compare the statistics of killing between Hamas and Israel. I remember at one point Hamas fired 3000 rockets and about 5-20 actually hit. Killing a couple of persons and wounding more.

But an Israeli missile has 100% accuracy and seems to kill atleast 30-50 each time, mostly civilians.

And saying Hamas are actually able to "aim for civilians" doesn't make any sense. They just light the Qassam-missiles up and hope for the best.

[Leshma]

This will bring me a lot of negative points but I believe that everyone with a gun pointed at another being is a terrorist.

So yeah, I agree with Teeth that Hamas is made of scum. But they aren't only organization like that and I can hardly draw a line between them or any other "legit" killer so called soldier.

Btw. Teeth that in my previous post was a joke. I don't care about your apparatus that much. Both jews and muslims are getting circumcised at young age for religious reasons. This is the subject they should care the most. Passion you have shown in your previous post inspired me to make a little joke. Hope you don't mind ;)

[Tagora]

(click to show/hide)

Funny how you say that information is one sided and pro Israel. While I see the exact opposite in my newspapers everyday. The news in my country atleast is extremely pro palestinian and subjective, that is why I preach unsubtle pro-Israelism to counter the horribly subjective reports of popular news. Western society has long stopped favouring Israel, barely any country in the EU does. Only in the US the jewish lobby is able to maintain a somewhat pro-Israel attitude in their government, but Obama is already reaching out more to Israel's neighbours.

All of your claims that Palestinians are a peaceful people that only wish to live in peace is complete bullshit. Peaceful coexistion being so far out of reach is as much the Palestinians fault as Israel.
If a majority supports terrorism, does that make terrorism right or does it reveal the power of indoctrination? Regardless, any organization that has the destruction of a peoples in its founding charter and attacks civilian targets is a terrorist organization. You also forget that since they have been elected there has been a civil war and Hamas now unofficially controls Gaza against the wishes of the government of the West bank. Hell Human Rights Watch condemned Hamas for human rights violations even against Palestiniansand they execute people left and right. Hamas is scum.
Regardless who started it, Hamas was firing missiles indiscriminately at civilian targets, which a full out war does not even justify. Launching missiles at non military targets is purely terrorism and yet Israel gets all the shit if they hit a school and civilians die, because Hamas was firing mortars from it. Popular opinion is a powerful weapon which somehow favours Hamas, just look at yourself, defending attacks on purely civilian targets 'because they didn't start it'. God.

That would all be very nice if Israel had a legitimate claim to Palestine.

[Teeth]

Many newspapers are pro-Palestine for a reason. Why is Israel even a country? In all reality it shouldn't be and the region was occupied by Palestinian's previously.

Those very same newspapers pleaded for a place to live for the poor jews just after World War 2, because of western guilt feelings about letting the extermination of 6 million jews happen. It's not like Israel carved itself out, western countries and especially your country put them there. Just because maybe sixty years ago a few people made a bad call, doesn't make that a valid reason to condemn every action of that country now on the basis that it has no right to exist.

USA was occupied by Native americans previously, let's condemn every action of them because of that! Besides, Jews occupied the region previous previously.

Huh? When did I mention once that killing civilians is a good thing? Im just saying since Israel keeps spouting out that they want peace and truces, and yet they are breaking truces? And compare the statistics of killing between Hamas and Israel. I remember at one point Hamas fired 3000 rockets and about 5-20 actually hit. Killing a couple of persons and wounding more.

But an Israeli missile has 100% accuracy and seems to kill atleast 30-50 each time, mostly civilians.

And saying Hamas are actually able to "aim for civilians" doesn't make any sense. They just light the Qassam-missiles up and hope for the best.

So just because Hamas is very bad at killing civilians makes them better than Israel? The intention of Israel is to disable a threat to them, while the goal of Hamas is to spread fear, hence why I call them terrorists. Violent acts intended to create fear or a feeling of unease: acts of terrorism. Intentions count, not the actual effectivity.

So the US in WW2 and the UK and many others were terrorists? As far as I can recall much methods of bombing cities to dust regardless of civilians were used then. O and Vietnam, O and Iraq/Afghanistan.

My definition of terrorism was indeed lacking, yet, Israel does not indiscriminately kill civilians, but they are very sloppy with collateral damage. Same with the US in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, the aim there was not to kill civilians. In WW2, yes, I would classify that as terrorism. Weakening the public support of your enemy by inciting fear. Nothing can really justify those kind of tactics, but it was a completely different time and war.

People sympathise with Palestine simply because it's quite clear that Israel considers them nothing more than dirt that needs to be swept aside and has done since it's foundation as a country. The only reason they haven't done it is because the backlash from the international community would be very strong. But if Israel was given the opportunity they would immediately do it and I can hardly blame Hamas for what they are doing. They have hit military targets as well as civilian but fact is Israel has far superior technology so what do you expect?

This is exactly the kind of subjective thinking that I see in the media everyday. The Arab world considers the Jewish people as nothing more than dirt that needs to be swept aside and have done forever. I can hardly blame Israel for what they are doing in protecting the situation they have been put in by western countries. It is not like they can just go away or something, so the only way Hamas is going to achieve their goal that is stated in their founding charter, is by wiping out every single Jew in Palestina. Can't wait till they get their hands on an atomic bomb, see if they are morally superior.

[Smoothrich]

This is exactly the kind of subjective thinking that I see in the media everyday. The Arab world considers the Jewish people as nothing more than dirt that needs to be swept aside and have done forever.

Great, some pissed off arabs thinks that.  Israel DOES IT, every day.  They get some rocks thrown at them by some starving illiterate peasant Palestinian?  STRATEGIC AIR BOMBING CAMPAIGN OVER DENSEST CITY ON EARTH FOR 2 WEEKS UNTIL CEASEFIRE.  (throw in infantry invasion every 5 years for flavor)

End of war death tolls?  Usually 3 IDF from friendly fire or accidents, 5 civilians injured from the rockets launched from Gaza (those rockets have fatality rates lower than fireworks) then thousands of Palestianian civilians dead, and way more  homeless, families destroyed, forced even further into the worse conditions of abject poverty and slow methodical genocide you can imagine.

Just imagine locking up a dog in a cage, and pissing on it daily while you starve it half to death.  If the dog growls or snaps at you when you walk by, you use it as cassus beli to begin beating the dog to death with a baseball bat.

What a savage dog.

[Turboflex]

Hamas gonna get a lesson from the school of outkast: Don't pull that thing out unless you plan to bang.

Soon they will have to change their name to Hummus.

[donib]

@teeth

Awww 
The Israeli are such a poor people, poor Jews prosecuted for their entire existence.
We must save the Israelis from the evil Arab warlords.

How can you forget that Israel is illegaly building colonies in Palestinian territory. Isn't it obvious that their intention is to grab and grab and grab? Or do you deny this? That they are just a poor people under attack? Don't these people have any SHAME at all? Shame on them, shame on you! They have been prosecuted by the chocolate chip cookies and some political figures are profiting from it now. They took use of the peoples emotions and feelings for their own purposes.

But it were the French and the British who did this, the imperial past (what past? it is still here, only different coat) of the Europeans that caused all the mess in the world there is now. Under the banner of spreading civilization in the "lesser" worlds.
It is them who caused this, because they had to control the Suez channel so they can secure their oil logistics. Not because of the sympaty for the Jews, big excuse nothing else. Just go take a look at google maps, go look at the borders of Iraq, Syria, Jordan, tell me what kind of borders you see. Wherever these "civilized" people came, they did more harm than good.

They wont get away with this, in the course of 30 years, they will probably grab some more land, perhaps entire Levant, untill they have their great Israil. Do you know that zionism oposes judaism? So it is just a secular political movement/idea that abuses a god given religion, just like it has happened in the past an infinite amount of times. Evil, corrupt people who know how to abuse things, how to divide the people and how to control them, thats what they do, just like the Romans did with christianity. Hah, anyone who believes the Romans got pious and accepted christianity out of fear towards God is a stupid. In the end people call religion the root of evil, deceived by the deceivers.

But like i said, they wont get away with it, wether you like it or not, the muslims are regrouping, and the khilafa will emerge again, oh yes it will. The conditions for a classical all out war are almost met.

[Lt_Anders]

All the Israel haters.

No one bothers to remember the wars Israel has fought since founding. Almost every war was Israel(and their supporters) vs the Arab nations. Neither side will be satisfied. Both "sides" started in civil war, and haven't stopped to this day. You can't fix perpetual war/hatred/etc. Just isn't going to happen.

I'm going to go on record and state that the arab world(what ever countries to be determined) are going to invade Israel. Israel going to go batshit crazy and...World War 3 will start.(if you are highly religious, this would start the end of the world scenario as proposed by several religions)

[Leshma]

World War 3 will never happen, that's nonsense.

[Smoothrich]

World War 3 will never happen, that's nonsense.

Funny how the "war to end all wars" was World War 1

[Leshma]

That's not what I meant. There will be wars, but full scale world war, that's not necessary anymore.

Even if there was such a possibility, I doubt this ongoing thing between Israel and muslim states will start such war.

China and Russia don't care about it, at all. USA is there because of oil and you know it. You guys don't need a huge war, just a quick way to take more muslim oil for "free" (not really for free because military operations cost money but I hope you understand what I meant).

Things could get ugly if China decides to stop selling their goods to USA, they produce materials that are needed to make those shiny things you guys love so much. Also they sell the final product but it's materials that count the most.

Even if you wanted to make things on your own once again, you simply can't do it that easily.

But Chinese are cool so far so everything is fine.

[Lt_Anders]

That's not what I meant. There will be wars, but full scale world war, that's not necessary anymore.

Even if there was such a possibility, I doubt this ongoing thing between Israel and muslim states will start such war.

China and Russia don't care about it, at all. USA is there because of oil and you know it. You guys don't need a huge war, just a quick way to take more muslim oil for "free" (not really for free because military operations cost money but I hope you understand what I meant).

Things could get ugly if China decides to stop selling their goods to USA, they produce materials that are needed to make those shiny things you guys love so much. Also they sell the final product but it's materials that count the most.

Even if you wanted to make things on your own once again, you simply can't do it that easily.

But Chinese are cool so far so everything is fine.

CHina Embargoing US is exactly what the US would like. What better way to state that all debts to china are off.(maybe?)

China wouldn't do that to US. It'd hurt China more than US. There hundreds of other countries that can offer labour and manufacturing for what china does. In addition, the US is fuking rich in materials(one of the most, in fact). The US would hurt, but it won't stumble if China did that. The world economy is so interconnected that if one part decides to stop, it'll backlash itself and self destruct everything.

Also, US makes most guns then the entire world combined. True fact.
Oh and the US makes enough food for most of the world. Embargo the US and FOOD would probably become embargoed to you. Food > Money.