Hybrid killing patch

[Mustang_Sweets]

There are some examples against this, people had sidearms back then too, but it was not the PRIMARY PRIORITY to use them.

And what does Overhybridization promote? Even more shields, even more ranged crap flying everywhere, because people want to defend themselves.

Eaxctly, if you hate ranged alot, get behind a shield or get behind a shielder. You could even be a 2h who carries a shield(OMG never thought of that). The last patch that chadz  came out with was to FORCE TEAM WORK. (can you see that i said team work?) So in all of this being said, all of whom I ever really see pissing and moaning about these things are those who rambo and die, all because they never look for someone else to blame.

[Prpavi]

it is not unreal at all to restrict some hybrid classes to be less effective with this 2 slot items patch.

crossbowmen hid behind the shields and formed a fire wall for the knights who charged in to retreat safely, they did not carry a zweihander and sunnenly started chopping knights heads. Not to say the didnt have much skill ye they had melee skill but certanly not the type of skill that would even rival a trained meleeist.

English longbowmen carried their longbow, their stack of arrows, richer ones had a horse they rode to the battlefield, and had s small sword like scimitar if needed but rarely used, they didnt whip out a Flamberge out of their ass and started chopping head off.

So yes troops were far more specialised especially ranged ones than they are ingame at this moment, nobody is saying the couldnt defend them selves, but if a knight with a great sword stormed the archers on foot the wouldnt have a great time, on second thought that would never happen beacuse they would flee the battlefield before that has a chance of happening, so realism wise this 2 slot patch is spot on imo.

[Prpavi]

p.s.

Archers rarely spammed melee  think about that archer friends and try to shoot cav and other ranged first not ur own team in the back in your thirst for kills, you are a support troop.

cheers

[Mustang_Sweets]

(click to show/hide)

it is not unreal at all to restrict some hybrid classes to be less effective with this 2 slot items patch.

crossbowmen hid behind the shields and formed a fire wall for the knights who charged in to retreat safely, they did not carry a zweihander and sunnenly started chopping knights heads. Not to say the didnt have much skill ye they had melee skill but certanly not the type of skill that would even rival a trained meleeist.

English longbowmen carried their longbow, their stack of arrows, richer ones had a horse they rode to the battlefield, and had s small sword like scimitar if needed but rarely used, they didnt whip out a Flamberge out of their ass and started chopping head off.

So yes troops were far more specialised especially ranged ones than they are ingame at this moment, nobody is saying the couldnt defend them selves, but if a knight with a great sword stormed the archers on foot the wouldnt have a great time, on second thought that would never happen beacuse they would flee the battlefield before that has a chance of happening, so realism wise this 2 slot patch is spot on imo.

p.s.

Archers rarely spammed melee  think ybout that archer friends and try to shoot cav and other ranged first not ur own team in the back in your thirst for kills, you are a support troop.

cheers

You my friend have, a valid arguement. But, I do say why not just do it on throwing items? The archers already in order to be affective can only place about 55 through maybe 80 wpf into melee at lvl 30. Archers already barely do any ranged damage as it is, without the only bonus of maybe having more distance that throwers.

So now that my opinion is slightly changed I say do this rule for only throwing and perhaps off of weapon weight/cost.

Also, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ARCHERS AND ALL OTHER PEOPLE WHO PLAY THIS READ HIS SECOND QUOTE!

[Adam_Bomb]

As people have said before concerning this next patch, get ready to see even more fleeing archers. I'm all for the patch as long as I don't hear a peep from melee players complaining about me running away when they come near...

[EponiCo]

On the other hand HOW THE FUCK DOES A HYBRID END UP WITH 8-10 PS?
Honestly as I've said hybrids are fine just the ones who use "Crutch weapons"  and abuse the shit out of them are the problem.

This. (But well a throwing or crossbow hybrid can end up with 8 PS). But after playing several pure and several hybrid chars I can say playing a pure character is perfectly viable. The two things left are unbalanced weapons (hafted mace) and to cheap ranged weapons. If the patch hits then I'm sure there will be a new thing, like nerf all the horsearchers without melee weapon. Though I'd certainly not mind making 2h and heavy shields take 2 slots.

Specialists are realistic, Jack of all trades type of soldiers? In movies, maybe.
I don't remember medieval armies had units like Pike-Crossbowman, and Two-handed Crossbowman. They were trained to do one thing perfectly, that was their role. Even today, army has branches, so this is realistic.

Spearmen, Swordsmen, Pikemen, Archers, Crossbowmen, Cavalry. And so many more branches of the time's military were specialists, not multi-talented geniuses like our regular cRPG character. This isn't realistic at all.

Err ... no. Think about it, name me just one knight who used a lance and had a hafted blade strapped to his back because he doesn't know how to fight with swords. Though many used crossbows in war and for hunting. Archers & Crossbowmen were expected to serve as light infantry, too. The one thing that is wrong is the equipment system, people pulling pikes out of nowhere or carrying a preloaded crossbow on their back.

[Prpavi]

Err ... no. Think about it, name me just one knight who used a lance and had a hafted blade strapped to his back because he doesn't know how to fight with swords. Though many used crossbows in war and for hunting. Archers & Crossbowmen were expected to serve as light infantry, too. The one thing that is wrong is the equipment system, people pulling pikes out of nowhere or carrying a preloaded crossbow on their back.

the problem here are not 2h/polearm hybrids but crazy proficient xbowmen and archers.

and nobody said they couldnt fight but werent as effective as in game at this point.

their fighting was mostly done is extreme cases of self defense othervise the would flee.

[Baron_Settmour]

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This is a problem because everyone can get a ranged sidearm, and this leads to even more projectiles.
And what will the regular polearm/2h player will do? Guess what, he'll do the same, even more projectiles! Yay!

Specialists are realistic, Jack of all trades type of soldiers? In movies, maybe.
I don't remember medieval armies had units like Pike-Crossbowman, and Two-handed Crossbowman. They were trained to do one thing perfectly, that was their role. Even today, army has branches, so this is realistic.

Spearmen, Swordsmen, Pikemen, Archers, Crossbowmen, Cavalry. And so many more branches of the time's military were specialists, not multi-talented geniuses like our regular cRPG character. This isn't realistic at all.

There are some examples against this, people had sidearms back then too, but it was not the PRIMARY PRIORITY to use them.

And what does Overhybridization promote? Even more shields, even more ranged crap flying everywhere, because people want to defend themselves.

Bingo +1

The hybrids are just causing battles to lack any challenge or fun because instead of fighting, they just pull a javelin out of their ass and throw it at you or sit at a distance, lob arrows, and then resort to a spamberge if you get too close. I've actually been having very little fun except when I play with the Fallen guys lately because of the hybrids in this game.

[Tears of Destiny]

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Bingo +1

The hybrids are just causing battles to lack any challenge or fun because instead of fighting, they just pull a javelin out of their ass and throw it at you or sit at a distance, lob arrows, and then resort to a spamberge if you get too close. I've actually been having very little fun except when I play with the Fallen guys lately because of the hybrids in this game.

Glad to have you on board, we pride ourselves in us being composed of specialists that cover for each other, instead of a legion of hybrids or do-it-yourself-rambos with no support.

[Baron_Settmour]

Glad to have you on board, we pride ourselves in us being composed of specialists that cover for each other, instead of a legion of hybrids or do-it-yourself-rambos with no support.

It's a team game and should be even more of one with this hybrid killing patch. Rambos help no one in the end.

[EponiCo]

the problem here are not 2h/polearm hybrids but crazy proficient xbowmen and archers.

and nobody said they couldnt fight but werent as effective as in game at this point.

their fighting was mostly done is extreme cases of self defense othervise the would flee.

Well, did you try it? I mean it's easy to do, level up an archer melee hybrid, a pure archer and a pure melee and see how well you do each time. Don't use the long hafted maces, katanas, and similar stuff.
In my case, I can tell you I can easily do just as well if not better with pure characters.

[Dach]

well for my part, it's not that the hybrid are OP, it's more that specializing doesn't bring any actual advantage...

Depending how you interpret that, that still mean hybrid are somewhat OP... 

[Prpavi]

Well, did you try it? I mean it's easy to do, level up an archer melee hybrid, a pure archer and a pure melee and see how well you do each time. Don't use the long hafted maces, katanas, and similar stuff.
In my case, I can tell you I can easily do just as well if not better with pure characters.

actually i do play pure builds. i play a pure 2her but sometimes i throw in a xbow/2h or polearm cuz i get tired acting like a pincusion on the frontlines. i do get bored of shooting half way through the build.

i do about the same on both builds maybe even better on my bxow build, with 15/24, 8 wm i can put 155 in xbow and a hundredish in 2h.

with my loomed swords and even a maul i have no problem defending myself.

so yes hybrid builds are too easy to play and this particular build is really OP and easymode imo. 20+ kills per map is too easy with this setup.

if i had only one sack of bolts and a 1h sword that would be a bit different  and thats the point of this patch.


p.s. bows are really boring to play, i had an arcer alt and killed it so im not trying your suggestion out.

[Ronan]

Ok I have to comment:


   First: A man at arms or soldier, or what ever they called themselves depending on the culture they lived in, DID indeed use more than one weapon. Ive been studying "western Martial Arts" (medieval combat) for over five years now under the first known Master of the early german period: Sir Jonas Leseinour. And I tell you NO! Knights did not only fight with one weapon. And yes archers ran. And NO peasants didnt fight with one weapon. Some of you are right and some of you are wrond and some of you are mixed. Ya'll should do some actual research before typing. ARMA is a good one to look into... Even youtube helps
  Knights and Samurai were taught at an early age the art of war. I know old german knights started around age 7. They were first to use wasters as practice, which is usually a stick the size of a long sword or what ever was favored at the time period. From there every melee weapon has its basis. A spear, a pole-axe, dagger, even an axe for the germans were based off the style of the longsword.
  When a knight mastered (doesnt mean he was a pro capable of defeating everyone he encountered) longsword he moved on to the next weapon, usually pole-axe (the KING of the battle field) which handled very similar. The dagger was his back up. He also knew how to use a bow and play a musical instrument. Part of being a noble ya know. They werent as proficient at the bow as a career archer (who was not a noble) but still he could kill you arse with it. In the battle field a knight or something like it brought multiple weapons to bear depending on situation. He would start with spear or pole-axe. Once that was deemed useless (broken/heavy/not the best choice at the time) he would discard it and pull his sword. After that and only if he lost it he would pull his dagger for some real close action or wrestling(you can also us a long-sword for wrestling too and its quite fun). Theres alot more and a lot of variables for what they carried.

Second the thrower:

  A skirmisher by trait. It would be dumb as hell to only carry a javelin or throwing axe into battlefield. They two had multiple weapons at their disposal. A sword, a dagger... etc. Though indeed, they did not carry 12-30 on them. That would be heavy, way too heavy to even get to the battlefield. Besides that they were not there to kill with their throwing. They were there to support. Peasant and other non nobles took this role. As far as throwing spears go, they threw them to soften up the enemy either by: demoralizing, breaking shields, or maiming the enemy. They engaged on the battlefield right before the main infantry. Of course it wouldnt be unheard of to see a stray spear flying through the air here and there....(ahh theres so much more but Ive been focused on melee in real life, and some bow. So Im no expert for throwing weapons)

Third PEASANTS: were conscripts, enlisted men, man-at-arms, scouts, archers. Depending on social rank. Medieval times were very complicated times to us and we can know nothing for sure.

Anyways, Im typing too much. It just angers me that uniformed people try to inform others so I decided to let out a lil of what I know.

Archers were mainly archers. They didnt have giant weapons with their giant war bows. WEIGHT! You have to carry these things for miles at a time.

Nobles were knights. Cav, pretty shiny full plate a$$h*%#$ with the best weapons and armor and horse.

Peasants were everything else. They ranged from stable boy to scout to archer to man at arms. It just depended on their families prestige and other factors dealing with ancestors and skill. not mention MONEY!

There were specialist groups but they all carried more than one weapon. 

So on and so on.

I do believe trowers need to be worked out (I am a thrower) because they are over powered jack, being that you jack-of-all-trades when going that route. Throwing Lances should be taken out. I am happy they are kill throwers a little bit. The patch will be a plus.

We are after similarities here not actual medieval times warfare. Games will only mimic real life never be exact. Its impossible and not at all fair. blah blah blah. I feel better now
 

[Keshian]

specialist with 24str/12 build at lvl 31

9IF
9PS
4WM
4ATL
140WPF

Hybrid Thrower 24/12 lvl 31

9PT
9PS
4WM
4ATL
90/120WPF

Hybrid: can throw

Specialist: +18 HP, +20WPF, can afford better gear


The trade off might not be enough for specialist( although IMO the scoreboard doesn't reflect this), but saying there is no downside being hybrid is false.

I assume you meant 27/12 since 9 ps.  Then you just go 24/12 on your hybrid and you can do 8 IF so you only have 5 less hitpoints with the hybrid and 1 less powerstrike and you can do 130 in 2h and 69 in throwing (dont even really need that with such high throw), so you have 10 less wpf.

5 hitpoints, 10 wpf (can be 0 with nothing in throwing), and 1 powerstrike is a nothing tradeoff to be able to throw 1 shot killing devices before meleeing, you are almost untouched in your melee capabilities.  Its why everyone is going hybrid and half the server is throwers sometimes.  Xbows dont need the skill points only wpf, but you can shoot very accurately with just 50-75 so the tradeoff is roughly 10 wpf from your 2h.  Because of all the nerfs the only ranged class that requires a huge tradeoff to be viable as a hybrid with another melee class is archery as you must commit both skill points and wpf and you need more wpf committed to be viable compared to the other ranged classes, so you usually lose 70-100 wpf from your melee skill and often have little to no powerstrike as you must often convert a  lot of skill points to be able to get enough of both powerdraw and wpf to be competent.