HBS vs Katana

[BlindGuy]

Aaand moved again.

Cheers CMP, the OP started the realism argument, couldn't let it stand

[Falka]

Aaand moved again.

Next time topic will be moved to spam 

[Casimir]

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[Akynos]

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What Bob wrote was:

Despite all the information available in this day and age about the relative hardness and brittleness of european and japanese steel, the different fighting styles and the different design aims of the japanese katana vs the european longsword, people quite capable of using their brain choose not to, and put forward this warped hollywood view of the katana.

The european longsword (and therefor the bastard sword, a very similar sword in all but name) was designed for a fighting style that involved stabbing and piercing armour, and almost bludgeoning with the blade, since a fairly unsharpened blade can still easily cut flesh but is less likely to warp and break when colliding with metal armour. Their PRIMARY focus when designing the longsword was the stab, since it is very fast, hard to parry, and is very effective against armour. The european steel used in both the armour and weapons WAS superior to Japanese steel of the time: this is not some ethnocentric remark, and does not reflect badly on the Japanese, it is simply they had poorer natural materials at hand.

The katana was, unlike the longsword (or bastard), was sharpened as much as possible, because the aim of the katana is the drawing slice: if you are swinging a longsword, it is best to swing it in an arc, but the katana you pull towards you as you swing, so it does not just cut, it slices. They honed the point of their katana because it can be useful to be able to stab an opponent, but the shape of the blade, the folding and forge welding of steel they used and their fighting style were ALL unsuitable for stabbing to be a primary concern.

It is worth bearing in mind that many men at arms and knights of europe would view a well made longsword as their primary weapon, with a dagger as a sidearm, and a buckler for catching speartips prior to rushing down the shaft and killing the spearman.

Not so with the japanese: the katana and tanto were both sidearms, and while of course many amazingly skilled swordsmen excisted and practised their art, once on a battlefield the vast majority would rely on: horse archery, the Nodachi (horse sword) and Naginata (a glaive or hafted blade), and the spear: Sure on horseback both european and japanese nobles would rely on a polearm, but samurai were horse archers very often, since horse archery IRL is very OP and they didnt gain their priviledged position in society by ASKING for it.


So: Longsword, great weapon
Katana: a badge of rank worn by nobles, but in combat a last ditch weapon.


Can we now please stop romatisizing that katana is so great. Its just a pretty average sabre, admitedly cosmetically apealling.

You obviously know more about these weapons than I do. I accept your argument. I was wrong.

It does not however change the fact that game-wise, thes two weapons are unbalanced.

And I would like to point out that my original post was NOT about realism. It merely was a side note from an unreliable source. Please, do not label this topic as a realism discussion about katana. It is about balancing these weapons so that they are fair stat-wise.

Cmp, please move this topic to the game balance section, if you are to move it at all.

[Quentry]

buff, buff, buff catana to  25 pierce!!!

[MayPeX]

My source is not exactly the most reliable...an american youtube video comparing katana and longsword...you know what? scratch that 'realism' thing.

Thing is, it is still too expensive for what it is. Actually, HBS is now worth more than the top tier greatswords, seing how many people want to trade it .

I'll be looking at facts. Fact is, katana is not balanced compared to HBS. If you do not agree, then you can't judge properly.

You should have stopped after you mentioned the source of your information, we all know what video you're talking about. The joke old, can you cut it out?

[Akynos]

Right, now that everyone had their say on the realist side of the comparaison, can we stick back to the topic?

[Tibe]

All I see from the comparison is that the costs are a little bit off. Should give the bastard equal cost of the katana imo, but thats really nothing to bitch about as the loommarket has made everbody rich anyway. 

As for the stats.....seems perfectly fine and equally balanced to me. This is not threadworthy.

[Akynos]

All I see from the comparison is that the costs are a little bit off. Should give the bastard equal cost of the katana imo, but thats really nothing to bitch about as the loommarket has made everbody rich anyway. 

As for the stats.....seems perfectly fine and equally balanced to me. This is not threadworthy.

I agree about the price being a small factor.
HBS has 10 more reach and 5 more thrusting damage. Thrust is the attack with the longest reach, therefore it is very important to the stats of a weapon.
If it is balanced, why does every 2h beg for a MW longsword (which is just the stronger version of the HBS) yet only RPing ninjas crave for katana?
I can accept the fact that the katana does not have the best looks, but even so, HBS being considered the best 2h weapon now, you'd at least expect the katana to be demanded if it was as good, wouldn't you?

[Tibe]

Comparing to the Katana, HBS is balanced. Its mainly about looks but also the lenght. HBS is considered to be the sexiest looking weapon in the game. And the fact that Danish and other such weapons  were nerfed into more of a supportweapon according to some players, the demand for bastardswords increased dramatically.

Katana is a weaboo weapon, which means in order to look even remotely awesome, you need weaboo armor, which really isnt as varied as euro/turk stuff. Also, due to its range, you cant take cav down as well as a jumphit with a HBS can. So the HBS is also slightly more versatile than a katana. But the katana compensates it with having 2 points more damage than HBS. It might not seem much but  2 points acctually count alot. Exdanisheroes who speak of "speednerf" can approve this. So its mainly about the lenght and looks really.

[Rebelyell]

+2 to dmg is massive buf

look at miadao now uber OP shit

[Osiris]

you pay extra for the privilege of being a weeaboo and tolerated  

[Tibe]

+2 to dmg is massive buf

look at miadao now uber OP shit

I couldnt really say, havent died to a single Miadaouser after the patch. I just lolstab them to death with my Gsword like a douche that I am. 

[Akynos]

+2 to dmg is massive buf

look at miadao now uber OP shit

Miaodao is OP indeed. Shame it looks like shit.

you pay extra for the privilege of being a weeaboo and tolerated  

Hahaha fair enough, fair enough

[Shaksie]

I can say that having used both weapons quite a large amount; HBS is definitely better than Katana. I felt this way even before the Katana's "nerf" (I believe it was a nerf, the main factor that made Katana a good weapon was the speed). Now that HBS is faster, longer, has a better stab and is significantly cheaper while having a slightly weaker swing, I argue that it is quite a lot better than the Katana. They are both good weapons but comparatively the Katana could use some form of buff.
That being said, Katana was primarily used by Weaboos and roleplayers beforehand and it will always be this way; people crave aesthetics.

On a side note, I don't find the HBS model in any way attractive. I have a masterwork and I use Finalboss' heirloom pack but I find the Longsword much more attractive than the HBS, that being said the HBS is better for my build.