Game/Mod Devs & morality

[Kafein]

In a game with unlimited grinding (which cRPG isn't, given the amount of xp you need for 35+ levels), selling XP boosters for real money is kinda pay2win, because a player that did not invest money cannot compete with that no matter how much time he puts in the game.

In a game where grinding stops (i.e. there is a reachable level cap) or if the bonuses it gives become negligible, it doesn't really matter.

[Leshma]

Also, don't forget this

[IR_Kuoin]

Also, don't forget this

Thanks a lot, now you ruined the ending for me   :cry:

[Leshma]

Sorry

[BlindGuy]

DON"T SAY SHIT!

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THIS GAME NOT PAY2WIN!

I have 60% victories in WoT, i never used premium account, i didn't bought any premium shit tanks and never used gold shells. All my stat is solo-random, no platoons and no companies, only solo! So dont say to me i have to pay money to own lemmings!
 Also game is fun on low levels, so you don't have to grind for 10 lvl to enjoy game. I would say those who pay much in WoT are just shit players who can't manage to achieve victory.

Ill write 2 things: 1/ Well done for playing without paying, Pay2Win does not mean that you cannot win by not paying, but paying money WILL give you a massive advantage. Also your win ratio is pure luck, same as autobalance in cRPG, you cannot always win by skill when so much is gear dependant, and also I assume you use custom visual content, if not, go on youtube and see what everyone else is using: there is NO anticheat of any sort in WoT, you can have brilliantly coloured enemy tanks with their ammo racks, track weaknesses, fuel tanks highlighted so you can easily destroy them, but despite all this I still dont understand:

2/ WHY play WoT? Its a fucking 2D game, with 1 firemode for ALL the vehicles in the game, once you have played all the maps (there arent many anyway, about a score) you have seen EVERYTHING in this game. You either have a main gun you fire with a mouseclick, or you are artillery in which cause you have a main gun you fire with a mouseclick. Its a fucking boring grind fest with 0 personalisation, and also is completely nonsensical.... infact I give up, its just shit, if you enjoy it good for you I hope it continues to bring you mind numbing joy.

[kinngrimm]

..., because a player that did not invest money cannot compete with that no matter how much time he puts in the game.
....

i am sleep deprevated so excuse my french .. .are you fucking serious?

I would give my left arm to stop this stupid grinding anytime. I am sick to my bones because of it. Yes i am addicted, that but doesn't exclude me being annoyed and disgusted by it.
offtopic:

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The most fun i had was when i was making all my generations and was able to experience now and then new builds and gear combinations. And there i am back again with free respec or lets just call it "build switch". In GW you had 20 as max level reachable within a day as experienced player. Then you were able to switch between different stats, gear combinations and skills/feats by just clicking onto a saved build and loading it. I created over 300 different build with different purposes and created libs of those to share them with my clan members back then. We talked about that stuff for endless ours how to optimize and for what situation what build would be more fitting in combination with which other builds in the group. It was awesome. This on a small scale is the generations to me. The looms are a nice bonus, but never at least not to me where that important, not like i do switch that stuff anyways ^^.

I would be a mixture of hardcore 24/7 and getting the last scrabs of money together to get perhaps more even ^^
But depending on balancing, you still could be able to outplay those who pay. In terms of hourly investment and just muscle nerve training.

(post sent after i slept away)

[BlindGuy]

Meh, the grind of crpg is a feature you experience only if you dont consider yourself able to compete at lvl 30. To me, between 1 and 31 IS cRPG, once you retire you can start having fun again, dodging tincans as you desperatly attemp to hit them over the head with a wooden stick. This is comedy. Seeing who can be the most efficient isn't fun, unless MAYBE it is for Germans...no racial slur intended but you guys are renowned for confusing the ideas of FUN and EFFICIENT.

[kinngrimm]

...FUN and EFFICIENT.

can't speak for all of us germans ^^, in my case i got a boner by establishing lean elegant systems(i was for a long time programer till i got burned out), which when working mostly do stuff automaticly without me having to deal with them afterwards again.

[[ptx]]

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Micro transactions can be good and bad. Segd seems confused.

RIOT games, who make League of Legends will take your money for a thousand things, but they are all cosmetic changes, you cannot buy the ability to win.

But World of Tanks IS a pay to win game. You cannot get the effective ammo without real money, and the best way to get an effective tank is a/ grind for months or b/ make a single instant payment: This is Pay to win.

lolwat.
BS, WoT is very much not pay2win.
You cannot advance to higher tiers by paying for it, everyone has to grind their way through (although you can get there slightly faster with a premium account). Also, every tank is effective... in it's own tier.
Premium shells - lol. They are there, if you are awful and wish to splash tons of cash per shell to slightly improve your performance. They do not do more damage, they only have slightly better penetration rating. You will penetrate the same tanks with regular shells, if you hit their weak spots. Also, they can now be bought for regular credits (still expensive).
Basically, what you spend cash in that game for, is cosmetic stuff, a few special tanks (which are by no means better than the normal tanks) and a slightly faster progression.

If an indy developer has an established reputation/respect from a community, he would keep the community with him pretty much either way. What he does risk losing, is the respect part from that part of his community, that values his moral values and decisions in the past.
It is very much up to the developer to choose how worth his reputation in this part of his community is worth to him.

[rufio]

pay to respec, and gear> color customization works imo, pay for lvls or looms dousnt

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this includes buying ingame money, xp boosters and shortcuts of the sort

, since it takes away prestige.

[IR_Kuoin]

Well, the devs. could earn loads of cash giving out "pay2win" stuff. But luckily they aren't

[BlindGuy]

Well, the devs. could earn loads of cash giving out "pay2win" stuff. But luckily they aren't

Im not sure that they could atm: while they have obviously written a lot of code, I still think the majority of the intellectual property belongs to TW and their distributors. Charging for it before having an agreement in place with TW would kinda get them in some hot water.


EDIT: Then again, i havent looked into Turkish law so, who knows.

[IR_Kuoin]

Im not sure that they could atm: while they have obviously written a lot of code, I still think the majority of the intellectual property belongs to TW and their distributors. Charging for it before having an agreement in place with TW would kinda get them in some hot water.


EDIT: Then again, i havent looked into Turkish law so, who knows.

I think Paradox would be the ones to get "mad". Mainly because they are the publishers of the game.

[BlindGuy]

Probably, but it depends what the deal they struck is. If TW were smart they might have been able to keep enough of the IP while still getting the publishers distribution deal, but probably not, Paradox have big money...

Ask devteam from MM: did they cut a deal with TW or Paradox?

[Kafein]

i am sleep deprevated so excuse my french .. .are you fucking serious?

Yes I'm serious. In the case of a game where you gain ingame power based on how much you paid and your ingame time in a limitless fashion, the player that doesn't spend money cannot actually compete. Time is limited, and in this context, money is not.

However, most pay2win games offer "double XP for 1 hour" objects, not objects that immediately grant you X amount of XP, so the difference between a paying and a non-paying player can only grow as fast as all the cash things allow the paying player to get additional XP to what the other player would get doing the same thing (good luck figuring out what I meant).