Going dedicated versus hybrid as a crossbowman. (No longer in eyesore format!!)

[Darkkarma]

    Alright, so i'm certain i'm not the first one to make a post like this but its finally gotten to the point where even I am noticing it. I've heard bits and pieces of what the next patch is supposed to bring as fair as build balances/nerfs and all but my question is still why hybrid cross bows/ 2-Hander builds are still clearly so much better than the dedicated arb/1h build? I wont even get into how utterly useless the arbalest is without looms when it comes to actual accurate distance shooting(even at 170 wpf). The regular crossbow is just so damn versatile, especially once you start to loom it.

    Here in NA i've seen countless long time xbow playing individuals switch from either the arb or heavy to the regular crossbow simply because its so good with a two-hander that its like having the best of both worlds. If I miss with my shot on a target and they close in and force me into melee, im at a sizable disadvantage, given how awful most one handers are now with anything under 6 powerstrike. A 2-hander on the other hand has quicker reload time and the opportunity to pull that huge german or danish greatsword off of their backs and melee just as fluidly as a dedicated melee player given how shallow the wpf cap on 2handers is.  The few of us that do stick with the arb do so out of personal preference or in my case, being too stubborn to simply switch to the flavor of the month to stay on top.

     Now, I'm not advocating or asking for a flat out ultra buff of the arb and nerfing of the regular crossbow, but god damn, if you want to de-value body shots and put more incentive on aiming for the head, at least give those of us that choose to actually use the Arbalest the accuracy to shoot people in the head without worrying about our shoots flying off to the left 75 percent of the time.
It shouldn't be impossible to hit a stationary target from distance without aiming your crosshair to the far top right of it simply because our bolts will not fly straight, especially when you have to wait upwards of three seconds in between shots.. As it stands, the hybrid 2 hander/cross bow build is leaps and bounds better than the dedicated arbalest/1 hander build.

    I know alot of dedicated meleers out there will read this and just scoff at this post thinking "good riddance, one less shitty ranged playstyle to worry about" but honestly, even if the dedicated xbows are nerfed out of existence, will having a bunch of two handed heroes with their side arm crossbows on their backs really be any better?

[Meow]

(click to show/hide)

Alright, so i'm certain i'm not the first one to make a post like this but its finally gotten to the point where even I am noticing it. I've heard bits and pieces of what the next patch is supposed to bring as fair as build balances/nerfs and all but my question is still why hybrid cross bows/ 2-Hander builds are still clearly so much better than the dedicated arb/1h build?  I wont even get into how utterly useless the arbalest is without looms when it comes to actual accurate distance shooting(even at 170 wpf). The regular crossbow is just so damn versatile, especially once you start to loom it. Here in NA i've seen countless long time xbow playing individuals switch from either the arb or heavy to the regular crossbow simply because its so good with a two-hander that its like having the best of both worlds. If I miss with my shot on a target and they close in and force me into melee, im  at a sizable disadvantage, given how awful most one handers are now with anything under 6 powerstrike. A 2-hander on the other hand has quicker reload time and the opportunity to pull that huge german or danish greatsword off of their backs and melee just as fluidly as a dedicated melee player given how shallow the wpf cap on 2handers is.  The few of us that do stick with the arb do so out of personal preference or in my case, being too stubborn to simply switch to the flavor of the month to stay on top. I'm not advocating or asking for a flat out ultra buff of the arb and nerfing of the regular crossbow, but god damn, if you want to de-value body shots and put more incentive on aiming for the head, at least give those of us that choose to actually use the Arbalest the accuracy to shoot people in the head without worrying about our shoots flying off to the left 75 percent of the time. It shouldn't be impossible to hit a stationary target from distance without aiming your crosshair to the far top right of it simply because our bolts will not fly straight, especially when you have to wait upwards of three seconds in between shots.. As it stands, the hybrid 2 hander/cross bow build is leaps and bounds better than the dedicated arbalest/1 hander build. I know alot of dedicated meleers out there will read this and just scoff at this post thinking "good riddance, one less shitty ranged playstyle to worry about" but honestly, even if the dedicated xbows are nerfed out of existence, will having a bunch of two handed heroes with their side arm crossbows on their backs really be any better?

Wall of Text.

Please give us some formatting.

[Darkkarma]

Hah. Ill put some pretty spaces in between it just for you, meow.

Edit: Changed it so there's a little structure and easier on the eyes!

[Andy]

TL;DR

[Lt_Anders]

Hybrid Crossbow here.

I usually alternate the Melee wpf that goes with it, but I find that the killing power of the arb(2 shots on normal targets with full health) is equivalent to the killing power of my MW light(which is equal to a crossbow in damage terms, and a heavy with +3 bolts). So why should I put 120+wpf into something to gain nothing more than longer range? There is no point, thus I have tons of left over points, and those go into all sorts of things.

Right Now, I'm a tribrid, HX. 120 2h, 100 Xbow, 80 Polearm. 3 HA, 7 PS, 5 Riding.(Level 32). Why should I get off a 21/18 build, and go for a pure xbow build to lose melee capability(Can still use a 2h with a arb) for the same range killing power? Most crossbowmen are often stuck firing from shorter ranges due to the availabilty of terrain cover often being closer to the action, and further from action makes you a cavalry target.

Dedicated just doesn't gain the benefits with xbows like it does all other classes because xbows get 0 modifiers beyond wpf. In addition, with the penalties applied(-25% in rain, severe drop in damage from range), you are FORCED by the game to get close to the action.

[Artyem]

Oh yes, the Hybrid Crossbowman.  The bane of my existence, the reason I start to despise this dreadful game.  There was once a time when you could have fun on cRPG, it was about being unique and using different armor combinations.  There was a time when you leveled up to use new equipment, not to retire and get more heirlooms.  Now all I see when I join a server is five guys in a tower with crossbows and greatswords, and all of the cavalry stacked on one team rolling the server.  Everyone is beginning to use the same armor sets, weapons and everyday I see cRPG slowly becoming Native with a nice multiplayer addition (strategus).

For awhile I just ignored it, I pretended looms didn't even exist, I just played without retiring or worrying about how awesome my weapons needed to be.  And then it just got worse, everyone else was using heirloomed weapons and they were starting to replace currency, so I did what everyone else did and I started to get heirloom points from retiring, and I used them to get my Flamberge to Masterwork status.  About then I noticed that every other player was using some form of ranged backup weapon, or used a two-handed sword and lance from horseback.  It's getting to the point that I really have to grind myself down to my last internal fragments of sanity to play this god damned game without just giving up and rage quitting.  I want to have fun, I really do.

I'm not saying hybrids should be nerfed, or buffed, or even terminated for that matter.  I simply wish to see the return of the fun in the game, for it's the worst nerf of them all.  The game is no longer about having a good time and leveling up, it's all about how many heirlooms you have and how many ways you can combine ranged with melee and still be a death machine either way.  Crossbows take no skill to use, put ten points (or none) into crossbow WPF and you're instantly (or already) a bolt spitting dead accurate killing machine.   Not enough?  Put a few points into riding (you probably already had them left over) and use the two together.

I'd like to see the ability to use Polearms and 1h or 2h / 1h viably again, not just ranged and melee, melee and melee.

Buff fun 2012

EDIT: Not trying to shit on your hybrid parade here, just sharing my deep opinions on where this game is going in my eyes.

* Artyem prepares for incoming wave of -1's from the hundreds of hybrid crossbowmen

[Pentecost]

I agree with Karma that the Arbalest is honestly not very good. In my entire career thus far, I've been one-shotted by an Arbalest body hit maybe twice? That's pretty disappointing considering I never wear anything more protective than the lightest mail armors. The throwing spear doesn't one-shot me most of the time either, but at least that doesn't have a ridiculously long reload time and isn't neutered by arbitrary game elements like rain. Nor does a Masterwork Arbalest with Masterwork Steel Bolts fare better when you compare it against a Masterwork Crossbow with Masterwork Steel Bolts. Both of them will drop a balanced build with light to medium armor in 2 body shots, but, as Karma said, the latter allows you to use a better melee weapon on top of possibly getting more than one shot off on the target in the first place. I'm not sure what should be done if the situation was to be reviewed, but I do think it should eventually be reviewed.

I've heard bits and pieces of what the next patch is supposed to bring as fair as build balances/nerfs

Mind filling us in? I want to be trolled.

[Darkkarma]

Mind filling us in? I want to be trolled.

This might not be at all accurate mind you, but id heard that they were going to change the way athletics worked on alot of archers, so that kiting was no longer an issue also something about heavy lances being nerfed a bit. This could all just be here say for all I know though!

[Lt_Anders]

(click to show/hide)

Oh yes, the Hybrid Crossbowman.  The bane of my existence, the reason I start to despise this dreadful game.  There was once a time when you could have fun on cRPG, it was about being unique and using different armor combinations.  There was a time when you leveled up to use new equipment, not to retire and get more heirlooms.  Now all I see when I join a server is five guys in a tower with crossbows and greatswords, and all of the cavalry stacked on one team rolling the server.  Everyone is beginning to use the same armor sets, weapons and everyday I see cRPG slowly becoming Native with a nice multiplayer addition (strategus).

For awhile I just ignored it, I pretended looms didn't even exist, I just played without retiring or worrying about how awesome my weapons needed to be.  And then it just got worse, everyone else was using heirloomed weapons and they were starting to replace currency, so I did what everyone else did and I started to get heirloom points from retiring, and I used them to get my Flamberge to Masterwork status.  About then I noticed that every other player was using some form of ranged backup weapon, or used a two-handed sword and lance from horseback.  It's getting to the point that I really have to grind myself down to my last internal fragments of sanity to play this god damned game without just giving up and rage quitting.  I want to have fun, I really do.

I'm not saying hybrids should be nerfed, or buffed, or even terminated for that matter.  I simply wish to see the return of the fun in the game, for it's the worst nerf of them all.  The game is no longer about having a good time and leveling up, it's all about how many heirlooms you have and how many ways you can combine ranged with melee and still be a death machine either way.  Crossbows take no skill to use, put ten points (or none) into crossbow WPF and you're instantly (or already) a bolt spitting dead accurate killing machine.   Not enough?  Put a few points into riding (you probably already had them left over) and use the two together.

I'd like to see the ability to use Polearms and 1h or 2h / 1h viably again, not just ranged and melee, melee and melee.

Buff fun 2012

EDIT: Not trying to shit on your hybrid parade here, just sharing my deep opinions on where this game is going in my eyes.

* Artyem prepares for incoming wave of -1's from the hundreds of hybrid crossbowmen

Honestly, I think the fact that they REMOVED hybrids from the game is what's killing fun. Everyone talks about builds and you almost ALWAYS see people doing heavy builds in 1 weapon and maxing armor/stats around that. I'm fairly certain that MY build would be scoffed at by 80% of players as ineffective because I'm not really specced into any one thing. I can kill, i can play, but that's because my skill is better than most(chambering is beast). All the "best" players are almost all specced as a single build.

EDIT: Also cav is hard

[Froto_the_Loc]

I have nothing really to say, but I'm going to post to show interest and support.

[Osiris]

try Arbalest xbowman with 2h ^^ ITs the bane of eu That god damned OP little knockdown 1 slot mace  (and im an arba 1h btw i manage to get a fair ammount of kills with the arba and i can hold my own in melee with 86 wpf and a LEE, maybe Na has more str builds so you glance more?)

[karasu]

try Arbalest xbowman with 2h ^^ ITs the bane of eu That god damned OP little knockdown 1 slot mace  (and im an arba 1h btw i manage to get a fair ammount of kills with the arba and i can hold my own in melee with 86 wpf and a LEE, maybe Na has more str builds so you glance more?)

Thank the heavens people haven't discovered yet the wonders of a decent 1h in the hands of an arbalester. 

[Pejlaen]

    Alright, so i'm certain i'm not the first one to make a post like this but its finally gotten to the point where even I am noticing it. I've heard bits and pieces of what the next patch is supposed to bring as fair as build balances/nerfs and all but my question is still why hybrid cross bows/ 2-Hander builds are still clearly so much better than the dedicated arb/1h build? I wont even get into how utterly useless the arbalest is without looms when it comes to actual accurate distance shooting(even at 170 wpf). The regular crossbow is just so damn versatile, especially once you start to loom it.

    Here in NA i've seen countless long time xbow playing individuals switch from either the arb or heavy to the regular crossbow simply because its so good with a two-hander that its like having the best of both worlds. If I miss with my shot on a target and they close in and force me into melee, im at a sizable disadvantage, given how awful most one handers are now with anything under 6 powerstrike. A 2-hander on the other hand has quicker reload time and the opportunity to pull that huge german or danish greatsword off of their backs and melee just as fluidly as a dedicated melee player given how shallow the wpf cap on 2handers is.  The few of us that do stick with the arb do so out of personal preference or in my case, being too stubborn to simply switch to the flavor of the month to stay on top.

     Now, I'm not advocating or asking for a flat out ultra buff of the arb and nerfing of the regular crossbow, but god damn, if you want to de-value body shots and put more incentive on aiming for the head, at least give those of us that choose to actually use the Arbalest the accuracy to shoot people in the head without worrying about our shoots flying off to the left 75 percent of the time.
It shouldn't be impossible to hit a stationary target from distance without aiming your crosshair to the far top right of it simply because our bolts will not fly straight, especially when you have to wait upwards of three seconds in between shots.. As it stands, the hybrid 2 hander/cross bow build is leaps and bounds better than the dedicated arbalest/1 hander build.

    I know alot of dedicated meleers out there will read this and just scoff at this post thinking "good riddance, one less shitty ranged playstyle to worry about" but honestly, even if the dedicated xbows are nerfed out of existence, will having a bunch of two handed heroes with their side arm crossbows on their backs really be any better?

DaveUKR will now recieve and answer all of your questions regarding the Arbalest.

[Turboflex]

some weapons are just not very good for dedicated builds, and more suited as hybrid options: throwing and xbow

I don't see what's wrong with this. It gives melee chars an option to sacrifice a small % of their skills to get some ranged ability to help them deal with way more obnoxious classes like kiting archers & cav. Cav and archers ruin gameplay a lot more than hybrid melee, and hyrbids are a counter to them.

[Falka]

some weapons are just not very good for dedicated builds,

Meh, there're plenty of players who can do really well as dedicated arbalesters. Even I with my STF alt can make decent scores from time to time.