Going dedicated versus hybrid as a crossbowman. (No longer in eyesore format!!)

[Gurnisson]

I was a dedicated arbalest players for several months, and I can't really see what you're complaining about. I loved being one, and it's imo one of the stronger classes in the game. I can agree that it's not too good at +0, but neither are the other xbows or bows. At +3 it's really solid, and in the hands of a good player, quite devestating. A (minor) accuracy boost could be acceptable, but otherwise it certainly doesn't need a buff.

[Darkkarma]

I was a dedicated arbalest players for several months, and I can't really see what you're complaining about. I loved being one, and it's imo one of the stronger classes in the game. I can agree that it's not too good at +0, but neither are the other xbows or bows. At +3 it's really solid, and in the hands of a good player, quite devestating. A (minor) accuracy boost could be acceptable, but otherwise it certainly doesn't need a buff.

The regular crossbow is  phenomenal without looms. Every item is better with looms of course, but for what you're paying, the standard unloomed xbow is really great! In my opinion it's definitely a much more viable option than the the Arbalest without looms. Furthermore, this was never about saying that the Arbalest was a bad weapon,  but its really quite clear which build tends to get much higher scores and just do better all around in battle.I know the burden of proof is one me to factually back up what i'm saying, and I can't speak for how things are in EU, but just take an honest look. The heavy crossbow has basically been phased out of existence and the number of dedicated Arbalest users are falling. I and a few others here in NA still stick to them and do well with them but even we are asked why we haven't just switched to regular crossbow/2 hand yet. It is quite possible to still do well with an arb if you know what you are doing, but you'd more than likely save yourself alot of time and frustration simply picking up a regular crossbow/great sword combo instead. Why go dedicated and risk experiencing the pitfalls of such a class when you could simply have the best of both worlds instead?

 

DaveUKR will now recieve and answer all of your questions regarding the Arbalest.

You're completely missing the point. Dave has been using the Arbalest even longer than I have. You can't say one build is in a good place just because one or two really good players do well with it. I would love hear his take on this though!

[Swaggart]

I just switched to dedicated arbamolester and I have to say that it is pretty irrelevant. I switched because I wanted to be a counter sniper. I figured with a +3 Arb and +1 Bolts I could one shot archers and other xbowers. To my surprise, body shots don't 1 shot archers, and it is surprising how they can survive 96 damage while wearing around 20 body armor. The only players I can consistently 1 shot are low level players, and of course if I score a headshot. Some may argue that no class should have the ability to 1 shot, but considering that an arbalest player is extremely vulnerable between shots it's a significant trade-off. A dedicated archer can 2 shot just as easily as I can, but they're a Gatling gun compared to me.

The other problem is that in my experience, with a 15/24 build and 5 power strike, I feel like I'm playing Glance Glance Revolution. Unless I use a pierce or blunt weapon and I happen to run into the one out of 10,000 strength builds roaming NA, I'll glance and that's all she wrote. I use a +3 Long Espada and if they are packing heavy armor, I'm boned. Sure, the stab is awesome and I have success with it, but being a 1 trick pony is easy to counter. I like swords because they are cooler, give me some range and I'm less likely to be s key hero'd while in melee, and I would really like to keep using them instead of selling out and grabbing a steel pick.

I'm not going to switch back to melee though. Being melee for 9 gens got boring and I wanted something new and challenging. The challenge is bringing the fun back to the game for me, but some tweaks are certainly needed.

[Turboflex]

I use a +3 Long Espada and if they are packing heavy armor, I'm boned. Sure, the stab is awesome and I have success with it, but being a 1 trick pony is easy to counter. I like swords because they are cooler, give me some range and I'm less likely to be s key hero'd while in melee, and I would really like to keep using them instead of selling out and grabbing a steel pick.

Long espada is a terrible wep for 5 ps... You should be using a military sickle in 2h mode or 2h mace.

If you absolutely gotta use a sword, use a langes messer in 2h mode.

When I tried an arbalast gen, countersniping was ok but I prolly got majority of my kills by shotgunning someone and finishing them in melee. Even against plate heavies an arby bolt from 5 feet out to gut really hurts.

[Swaggart]

I outrange all those weapons you listed with my Long Espada, and depending on the attack I outdamage and I'm faster. I use a 1H as backup, and swords should be just as viable as those weapons you listed otherwise why exist in the game at all.

As to shotgunning, why bother spending any points into Xbows if you're just going to shotgun? Hell, if you're going to put yourself into melee range constantly, there's no point in bringing an arbalest at all.

[Darkkarma]

Long espada is great but I really found a sweet spot with the italian sword. It plays ALOT like the espada, only a bit shorter and faster. Also, i've taken to the arabian cavalry sword the cut damage and length make it an awesome weapon. It will be a bit on the slow side though with such low wpf.

[Nightingale]

Desirable here... my opinion matters little, but I decided I'd share it anyway xP  I'd like to believe I am pretty decent at my class "Arbalestier" and I made a build that reflects how I play, I rely heavily on my range damage output that simply doesn't 1 shot anything but peasants, Which you shouldn't waste one of your 13 bolts on them anyway.

the score system its Impossible for me to earn valour even with the highest K/dr,So less xp.
Honestly I don't even know if there is more than maybe 4-5 Pure Arbalestiers NA side. So it must be so overpowered only 4-5 people use it? and because those select few people that have played this class for awhile like myself preform well, means the whole class is OP? I personally do not care what you do to this class, Ill probably play it till cRPG gets boring.

Also If I would have thought it through when starting out I would have chosen heavy crossbow instead of Arbalest, nearly the same damage, same shot ratios but much faster reloading and many more builds to try since it only requires 12 strength.

and my favorite back up weapon is the Niuweidao. or the Military Cleaver  depending on which theme I am trying to go for.

[dynamike]

Hybrid Crossbow here.

Right Now, I'm a tribrid. 120 2h, 100 Xbow, 80 Polearm.

Pretty much my build, except shield instead of HX. Sacrificing high stats (I am 19/18 at level 32!) and trading in reduced killing power and survivability for versatility - what's wrong with that?

The game would be really boring if there were only dedicated classes and no hybrids. And besides: being stuck in the mindless grind to lvl 35 in one dedicated class only? Swinging a polearm for 12 trillion XP points straight? No thank you, I'd get bored to death!

heavy lances being nerfed

Get ya grubby fingers off my precious!  I am pretty much the only guy who uses this as the only melee weapon, you would nerf 100% of the population of my class.

[CrazyCracka420]

Meh, there're plenty of players who can do really well as dedicated arbalesters. Even I with my STF alt can make decent scores from time to time.

But when they go melee, they aren't nearly as powerful as they could be if they were straight melee.

[Spanish]

Actually I made an alt inspired by Karma's Xbow skills. It's a dedicated arbalest build 15/27 I think and I prefer the military cleaver as my sidearm. Personally I rarely glance using it unless its a right swing which I'm just terrible at using properly. But most of the time I find my Xbow as secondary to my sword even when I'm landing every shot.

The reload is just so slow that I'll shoot someone and they may run up on me. I could run and get another shot off but it's easier just to engage them and kill them using my cleaver. When it comes down to being effective I often just bring my arbalest to take a few shots and lay low until most people are dead and then brig out the cleaver to mop up.

I havnt played that alt in a long while due to the fact I can't afford the upkeep ever on the arbalest and end up running around with just he cleaver which is lame. The reg Xbow is easier to upkeep faster reload so I get more shots off, carry more ammo and makes it easier stay closer to the fight since the reload speed isn't as slow. The only reason I really like my arbalest is because of the faster projectile speed but I still often miss due to the delay on the shot and the accuracy on an unloomed one is quite terrible :/

[Dach]

Yup I can attest, just switched back to arbalest + mace instead of 2h + crossbow. Why because of my build...

I'm 15/30 and wanted to try to get most of my athletics by reducing the lenght and weight of my weapon.

Result:

For the same character as far a xbow goes...

Malus: I get less accuracy, way longer reload time, way harder upkeep, also with high athletics I got I could easily kite melee character a bit than reload with the crossbow, can't do that with the arbalest unless I run across half the map.

Bonus: I can oneshot some peasants and can shoot through more shield than the crossbow.

My 2 cents, the crossbow+2h combo is way more efficent and cheap.

I am tempted to even try 2 crossbow + bolt + mace.  (will probably shot the first crossbow than drop it to regain my run speed bonus!)

[Sandersson Jankins]

Didn't read the entire thread, but I was 15-24 arbalestier for two straight gens, which is a long time for my ass. Had 152 crossbow wpf and 75 2h wpf. Used a +2 mace. God damn was I effective. I shot motherfuckers with a deadly accuracy, for extreme damage. When people came at me, I could kick their ass in melee if they were equal or lesser skill than me, and sometimes even better players too. Only had 5 PS and it seemed like a hell of a lot more. Although, I think that has more to do with blunt weapons being much better for just about anyone than cut weapons, or even pierce.

[Tibe]

I played one gen as an arbalester/1h with italian sword. Nothing loomed. I can say I can feel the pain of an arbalester, the damage is very weak for the loooong reload time and weight. Its was quite fun most of the time, but occasionally too many people survived my shots.

[Gristle]

• I agree that Arbalest needs more accuracy. Buff it so it's actually worth the 2 slots, and make the Heavy not worthless while you're at it.
• Dedicated Crossbow will simply never be an optimal build unless you're a horse crossbowman. The long stationary reload is the biggest weakness in the game.
• It is so EASY to hybrid as a Crossbowman that there's no reason NOT to do so. Really, what are you doing with all of those skill points?
• I disagree that 1 handed weapons aren't good enough. Military Pick, Iberian Mace, and Military Cleaver are all good enough with 5 PS.
• Leave my Crossbow alone.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Dedicated arbalest is not a bad build. You can stay in the top 1/4 of the scoreboard even if you are just picking up the class. It has a lower skill ceiling than archery, but it is viable.

On the other hand, crossbows are THE BEST hybrid weapon type. Absolutely minimal investments of stats and skills. You don't need power strike/draw/throw at all, just a measly 50+ wpf. Bam, you can hit reliably from 30 yards away. The drawback is the upkeep costs (light, regular or arablest  + steel bolts. Regular bolts are garbage at +0 through +3.) make it hard to have heavy armor, a nice horse, or top tier 2H or polearm without suffering negative gold gain on lower multipliers.

If you can afford the luxury of a crossbow into your build, do it.