Star Citizen

[Thomek]

Find it funny that Thomek actually believes anything DS says.

I have no reason to believe either of them, just saying he comes across saneR than Roberts. I'm not saying there's anything particularly sane about either of them. And yes, I do agree CS seems greedy as fuck, there's lots of things fishy about the state of the project, and that worms are just starting to come out of the woodwork.

Thomek, you are massive tool most of the time you post but this time you've outdone yourself.

That's quote worthy coming from you!

Anyway, the citizen con is just days away, let's see what they bring to the table.

[Vexus]

Do I really need to go through all of this text? Because I really can't be arsed for someone talking out of his ass.

All I'm saying is that while he does mention a thing or two he always changes the subject.

Everyone can say it's not true till they don't have to prove it. Till accountability is shown nothing is certain. I don't believe everything is fine as he says and so does many people. I won't however say it as a fact, because Chris Roberts has to show some form of accountability to prove his words.

Like freelancer, this game is showing to be going the same direction. His dream is too big for the amount of money he has.

[Xant]

Single shred of evidence..  Well if The Escapist had 1 or 2 sources, perhaps it would be a bit thin, but they have 7, SEVEN sources, and from my research, they seem to have done a good job in verifying them. NVM people criticising the fact that they are anonymous. Well no shit, people don't want to risk their careers, and this is perfectly normal journalistic work regarding anything to do with whistleblowers. AFAIK Escapist has no past involving shoddy sensationalist work either.  I simply see no reason why they would run this case if there was not any real problems at CIG.

There's also lots of game industry artist "insiders" basically confirming the situation in this thread:  http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158066  (states rumours going on in the biz..)

About the shameless part, they obviously focus on grabbing as much money as possible, in stead of making a game which they already have more than enough money to do, inventing more and more hilarious reasons to ask for more money. (Like adding pets, 1 million dollars pls. Entire games are made for less than that.) It is shameless to sell those ships (concept art only atm.) for the prices they take. It's also watering out gameplay, letting people buy themselves into an advantage. It turned from donations and crowdfunding into a very shady business a long time ago..

Seven sources for what, exactly? Think about that for a moment. I mean really, think about it. What are these sources saying? Go look at the article again. And then read Roberts' reply to it. As for your "AFAIK", you're wrong.

Wow, amazing, a business asks for more money! What a twist! And how the fuck would you know they have enough money to make the game? I thought you trusted these insider sources that said they DON'T have enough money? Now they're not so trustworthy anymore? 

Also, truly, you're fucking out of your mind and your judgement is so flawed it can't be trusted for anything if you think Derek Smart comes across as "saner" than CR. Not that you having a shitty judgement is anything new, mind, just pointing it out again.

Like freelancer, this game is showing to be going the same direction. His dream is too big for the amount of money he has.

But Thomek said they have enough money???

And then why are you bitching about them getting more money by selling pixels if you think they don't have enough money yet...?

Seriously, you "critics" are so fucking clueless.

[Vibe]

All I'm saying is that while he does mention a thing or two he always changes the subject.

Everyone can say it's not true till they don't have to prove it. Till accountability is shown nothing is certain. I don't believe everything is fine as he says and so does many people. I won't however say it as a fact, because Chris Roberts has to show some form of accountability to prove his words.

Like freelancer, this game is showing to be going the same direction. His dream is too big for the amount of money he has.

What exactly do you expect them to show, their financial records and monthly financial report? No one does that lol. He said what needs to be said on the subject, and that's the fact that only a few top people know the real finances behind it. Most companies in the world work like that, even the smaller ones. I don't know jack shit about finances in my somewhat small and very friendly firm, heck I don't even know the pay of other people. It just isn't discussed at all on the inside, let alone to the public.

Everyone can say it's not true till they don't have to prove it.

Yes and what exactly has the anti-SC side proven? At least SC has a working video game (THAT YOU CAN PLAY) to show.

[Xant]

What exactly do you expect them to show, their financial records and monthly financial report? No one does that lol. He said what needs to be said on the subject, and that's the fact that only a few top people know the real finances behind it. Most companies in the world work like that, even the smaller ones. I don't know jack shit about finances in my company, heck I don't even know the pay of other people. It just isn't discussed at all on the inside, let alone to the public.

CR already said all that needs to be said: he was driving nice cars, living in nice houses, and having a nice life otherwise even before SC. That's something that can be disproved if it's false.... but look, no one's jumping to do that, because the accusation is retarded.

People just lose their common sense when they enter motivated skepticism mode. You'd almost think they've never worked a day in their life. 99.9% of the employees of any workplace wouldn't know the financial info any better than some random guy on the street, all they'd have is more bitter gossip and speculation about someone they don't like...

[Vexus]

But Thomek said they have enough money???

And then why are you bitching about them getting more money by selling pixels if you think they don't have enough money yet...?

Seriously, you "critics" are so fucking clueless.

Simple, it's not fine selling ships in alpha. Just because you are fine with cash shops doesn't mean everyone is.

If he really required so much money, why make a kickstarter for only 2 million? If he is indeed wealthy, why does he need to rack 2-3 million a month to sustain 250+ people working? Aren't the 90+ million racked enough? I thought he said it was enough?

What exactly do you expect them to show, their financial records and monthly financial report? No one does that lol. He said what needs to be said on the subject, and that's the fact that only a few top people know the real finances behind it. Most companies in the world work like that, even the smaller ones. I don't know jack shit about finances in my somewhat small and very friendly firm, heck I don't even know the pay of other people. It just isn't discussed at all on the inside, let alone to the public.

I don't expect them to show anything. If he thinks they are doing fine, then proof must be shown not only words. Freelancer was also going fine in his mind until he required much more time and money than he was given.

I am not expecting them to handing the public the financial reports like Derek Smart wants which is absurd. What people would like however, is some form of yearly report. Companies do this, don't they? This is the biggest crowd funded game. Some people shelled thousands of dollars in this project, asking for a simple yearly report is not much to ask for.

[Xant]

Simple, it's not fine selling ships in alpha. Just because you are fine with cash shops doesn't mean everyone is.

What great logic, what great reasoning. It's not fine for you to keep breathing while Star Citizen is in alpha. Just because you're fine with you breathing doesn't mean everyone is.

If he really required so much money, why make a kickstarter for only 2 million?

So, again, you show you haven't done your research and are just wildly speculating. Because if he'd only have gotten two million, the game would have i) been smaller and ii) they'd have gotten private investors, the two million would have been proof there's interest.

If he is indeed wealthy, why does he need to rack 2-3 million a month to sustain 250+ people working? Aren't the 90+ million racked enough? I thought he said it was enough?

What? What are you even talking about? How does his personal wealth have to do anything with how much money Star Citizen is making? And no, AAA games regularly have much bigger budgets than 90 millions. And no, he never said it was enough, he said they have enough now and aren't running out of money any time soon. But again you contradict yourself. Should they wait until they run out of money to make more money? Then you'd be whining that they're almost out of money.

I don't expect them to show anything. If he thinks they are doing fine, then proof must be shown not only words.

Must it? Oh, really? What law is this based on, pray tell?

I am not expecting them to handing the public the financial reports like Derek Smart wants which is absurd. What people would like however, is some form of yearly report. Companies do this, don't they? This is the biggest crowd funded game. Some people shelled thousands of dollars in this project, asking for a simple yearly report is not much to ask for.

No...

[Leesin]

IMO, regardless of the facts, ANY money you spend on an Early Access/Founders/Kickstarter whatever you want to call it, is a gamble, there are numerous things that could happen during development that may result in the game never seeing a complete release and it may not be down to malicious intent on the developers part. If people want to spend hundreds and some even thousands on a game that isn't complete yet, that's up to them, but they should only do so with the knowledge that their money is an investment and it does not guarantee a complete product.

Do I believe they ( or at least the one person ) are just 'pretending' to make this game this to milk money out of people and have no intention of completing the game? I highly doubt it, because that sounds borderline illegal if not illegal and definitely a massive moral wrong in the faces of any court, because of the amount of money involved they would have to be complete fucking morons to do that, it would most likely get pretty nasty for all involved. I am quite certain CR wants to make an amazing game, will it be amazing? I don't know, will it ever be complete? I don't know, but I don't think he or anyone else involved intends on fucking people over.

[Vibe]

IMO, regardless of the facts, ANY money you spend on an Early Access/Founders/Kickstarter whatever you want to call it, is a gamble, there are numerous things that could happen during development that may result in the game never seeing a complete release and it may not be down to malicious intent on the developers part. If people want to spend hundreds and some even thousands on a game that isn't complete yet, that's up to them, but they should only do so with the knowledge that their money is an investment and it does not guarantee a complete product.

I wouldn't even call it an investment, it's more of a donation. Companies invest in other companies and expect a return, kickstarter is donating money (sure, you might get the game). And that's what everyone wasting their money on kickstarter should know and not expect a yearly financial report as if you were a real investor. That's not to say that SC doesn't show reports, just not in the form for business people, but in the form for normal people - aka gameplay videos, screenshots, blogs, etc.

[Xant]

SC shows fuckloads of reports. Weekly. Several of them. Detailed progress reports. More than any other commercial game.

[Vexus]

What great logic, what great reasoning. It's not fine for you to keep breathing while Star Citizen is in alpha. Just because you're fine with you breathing doesn't mean everyone is.
So, again, you show you haven't done your research and are just wildly speculating. Because if he'd only have gotten two million, the game would have i) been smaller and ii) they'd have gotten private investors, the two million would have been proof there's interest.
What? What are you even talking about? How does his personal wealth have to do anything with how much money Star Citizen is making? And no, AAA games regularly have much bigger budgets than 90 millions. And no, he never said it was enough, he said they have enough now and aren't running out of money any time soon. But again you contradict yourself. Should they wait until they run out of money to make more money? Then you'd be whining that they're almost out of money.
Must it? Oh, really? What law is this based on, pray tell?
No...

- Here we go again with insults because you have nothing to go against your retarded reasoning. I feel sorry for you. Well, not really.
- The kickstarter didn't get the most money. The most money was gained from his crowd funding. Am I wrong?
- Why? Simple, again putting such a big project on kickstarter was a bad thing. Not because of him but because of the scope of the project. The amount of money he got was supposed to serve for the game to be complete or let's be real, near completion. Is it tough? Not even close!
- Yes he must show proof if he wants to take them to court.
- Okay.......

[Xant]

- Here we go again with insults because you have nothing to go against your retarded reasoning. I feel sorry for you. Well, not really.
- The kickstarter didn't get the most money. The most money was gained from his crowd funding. Am I wrong?
- Why? Simple, again putting such a big project on kickstarter was a bad thing. Not because of him but because of the scope of the project. The amount of money he got was supposed to serve for the game to be complete or let's be real, near completion. Is it tough? Not even close!
- Yes he must show proof if he wants to take them to court.
- Okay.......

Where did I insult you, moron? See, that's an insult, and it neither adds nor detracts to or from any of my arguments.

Kickstarter didn't get the most money, no, and... what is your point?

Good god, you truly are retarded, you can't see that arguments by assertion are not real arguments. You keep saying idiotic things like this, "putting such a big project on kickstarter is a bad thing," "selling ships is a bad thing," and so on and so forth, yet you never provide any reasons for WHY those are bad. You just say them and expect everyone to think it's true.

[Vibe]

The amount of money he got was supposed to serve for the game to be complete or let's be real, near completion. Is it tough? Not even close!

And having money means you can instantly complete a project?

[Xant]

And having money means you can instantly complete a project?

Vexus is a very confused person, you see, he builds speculation upon speculation and with every new speculation he assumes the speculation that one stands on is a fact. Case in point, here he assumes SC is almost out of money, because he speculated it before.

[Leshma]

Read the followup of the escapists which explains how they got the information and the accusations of robert's message.

She is lying. Every source that Lizzy Finnegan is quoting in her articles stems from Derek Smart's blog and twitter account. Even when thee are other people involved, Derek Smart is source of that story. She didn't contact anyone, not sure did she even contact Derek Smart personally because everything is available on his blog and twitter, ready for grabs.