Star Citizen

[Vibe]

Selling ships is just simply a way to show they NEED MORE MONEY. Now, does that mean they don't have enough left from their 90 million crowdfunding? Or 90 million is not enough to make the game?

How does this show they NEED more money? What if they just WANT more money?

And yes, selling all these ships in alpha is shameful. They should be part of the game not extra DLC. (Regardless if you can get them with ingame means or not)

What in the world. How does this "They should be part of the game not extra DLC" go with this "Regardless if you can get them with ingame means"? You do realize that "by ingame means" implies it's not a DLC?

[Vexus]

How does this show they NEED more money? What if they just WANT more money?

What in the world. How does this "They should be part of the game not extra DLC" go with this "Regardless if you can get them with ingame means"? You do realize that "by ingame means" implies it's not a DLC?

I knew I was going to get pointed out about the DLC thing. Sorry, my main language is not english, I didn't know what to add instead of that. I'll edit it to cash shop then.

As for the money part:

"It's not going to happen. We keep a pretty healthy cash reserve. We managed our expenses based on the revenue we bring in. We have our development timeline and we know what we're doing. We adjust. If I'm not bringing in $3 million or $2 million a month, we aren't going to have as many people working on it."

Robert himself said this: http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/8/31/9211969/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-star-citizen (Near the Legal Matter box)

They NEED the ship sales or they can't pay that amount of money monthly to the people working on the game. That begs the question I posted again. This same thing happened to freelancer too btw (Check wikipedia).

Being acquirable or not, we are talking about ships not costumes here. These ships will come with a cost, they are not free. Some will probably take weeks or more to get. This was an issue with ESO putting a mount for free in the collectors edition. Sure, you can get the same mount (?) ingame, however the first horse costs 11k gold.

Pay to Win or Pay to Advance Quicker It's still paying to get a big boost early on regardless.

Anyway, before going further in who is right or wrong I shall see what is going to be shown on Citizencon.

[Vibe]

"It's not going to happen. We keep a pretty healthy cash reserve. We managed our expenses based on the revenue we bring in. We have our development timeline and we know what we're doing. We adjust. If I'm not bringing in $3 million or $2 million a month, we aren't going to have as many people working on it."

But that's standard business operation.... if you have the extra money you invest it, to either make more, make better, make faster. If you don't, you just do with what you already have. That doesn't show a need for money. A need for money would be if they didn't have the money at all to pay (enough) developers to make this in a somewhat acceptable timeframe, or make it at all. What he's talking about is luxury expense, not necessity expense.

I do dislike cash shops as well though. I'd rather have all ships be acquired through in-game means only (and time required to acquire a ship is a matter of game balance then). But such is lyfe and such is the new age of MMO-gaming. As long as the time required to get a ship ingame and the money to purchase this ship in the cash shop is well balanced, then we can't call this pay2win (or advance quicker, that's all the same to me tbh).

[Thomek]

So, again, why is what they're doing with crowdfunding "shameless"? No one has yet been able to explain that. Vexus' explanation of "omg they are making spaceships for a space game = not working on the game" doesn't count, unfortunately.

The gameplay that they have and the gameplay they've shown is great. Where are you getting "not exactly in the focus is it" from?

If you think Derek Smart comes across as saner than CR, you're really out of touch with reality.

Yet another jealous person throwing around wild accusations without even a single shred of evidence.

And as if any proof was needed, this proves you've not done your research.  But I guess it's easier to pull speculation out of your ass than actually read up on things.

Single shred of evidence..  Well if The Escapist had 1 or 2 sources, perhaps it would be a bit thin, but they have 7, SEVEN sources, and from my research, they seem to have done a good job in verifying them. NVM people criticising the fact that they are anonymous. Well no shit, people don't want to risk their careers, and this is perfectly normal journalistic work regarding anything to do with whistleblowers. AFAIK Escapist has no past involving shoddy sensationalist work either.  I simply see no reason why they would run this case if there was not any real problems at CIG.

There's also lots of game industry artist "insiders" basically confirming the situation in this thread:  http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158066  (states rumours going on in the biz..)

About the shameless part, they obviously focus on grabbing as much money as possible, in stead of making a game which they already have more than enough money to do, inventing more and more hilarious reasons to ask for more money. (Like adding pets, 1 million dollars pls. Entire games are made for less than that.) It is shameless to sell those ships (concept art only atm.) for the prices they take. It's also watering out gameplay, letting people buy themselves into an advantage. It turned from donations and crowdfunding into a very shady business a long time ago..

[Leshma]

What they are doing with the "crowdfunding" is simply shameless, and the crowdfunding itself very much looks like it was/is the main thing they are doing.

Everything is ordinary with this crowdfunding project, other than large sum of money they gathered. That is drawing attention.

Yes they are selling ships, but they also communicate with backers and tend to deliver builds more often than some other crowdfunding projects I know that are pretty much black box after three years. But no one cares because they gathered couple hundred thousands of dollars.

[Leshma]

How does this show they NEED more money? What if they just WANT more money?

If this is in fact the long con as Derek Smart said it is, then they would jump the ship right now. Actually they should do that before all this mess. How they plan to hide now and where to hide when there is so many eyes on them?

If this isn't a long con, but massive project that is being developed then they in fact need money. Because game is ten year project (counting three that already passed). While 90 million dollars is enough for 4-5 years of development, it isn't enough for ten or more years. Whole idea is to make influx of cash stable after they deliver game they pitched. Cash shop won't go away after launch. It maybe won't be as blatant p2p as it is now, but there will be things money can buy you in Star Citizen world.

About Escapists and Lizzy Finnegan, she pushed another article which is response to angry Roberts letter. In that article she is quoting various sources. Those various sources are in fact things Derek Smart said in his very first blog post after they removed him from community. Is it that hard to point that out? And no, there aren't other people who said that and he wasn't quoting anybody. Her source is just one and that is blog of Derek Smart. I know that because I've read his first rant, rest I skipped. If any of you want to waste your time, you can check it yourself.

[Leshma]

and if you read his blog, he comes across saner than Chris Roberts do

Sorry for triple post... but I've just noticed this now. Thomek, you are massive tool most of the time you post but this time you've outdone yourself. I'm not even slightly surprised you think things Derek Smart say have any merit. Would be surprised if it was otherwise.

Not saying that Chris Roberts is sane or trying to shed some positive light on his actions. Strictly talking about Derek Smart. If you truly believe there is anything right with Derek Smart, you either have awaken from 30 year hibernation or are just as retarded as he is.

[Vexus]

No one should believe every word Derek Smart says.

He always has double standards.

[Leshma]

Find it funny that Thomek actually believes anything DS says. I have a pretty bad reputation in this community for a good reason. Actions speak louder than words and most things I said or did were either mutually exclusive or batshit insane at times. That is something most people who visit this place and are familiar with my actions can agree with. Now multiply my behavior with large number and you get Derek Smart. Dude is a professional troll and somehow managed to make a living out of it.

[Vibe]

So apparently CIG should now be pursuing legal action against Escapist for the article?

[Vexus]

So apparently CIG should now be pursuing legal action against Escapist for the article?

He sent them a letter pretty much bashing their work and demanded an apology or taken to court while also mentioning derek smart multiple times eventough he had nothing to do with the article 

The escapist already left a reply they won't do anything. If they really take it to court chris robert must prove the accusations so it's pretty much a win win scenario since he doesn't want to respond to the accusations.

[Kafein]

So apparently CIG should now be pursuing legal action against Escapist for the article?

That can only turn out badly for CIG.

[Vibe]

He sent them a letter pretty much bashing their work and demanded an apology or taken to court while also mentioning derek smart multiple times eventough he had nothing to do with the article 

Do you know for certain Derek Smart had nothing to do with the article? Considering he has been sticking his hands in pretty much everything related to SC drama so far, and supposedly a lot of the accusations from Escapist articles are what Derek Smart has been saying for months.

The escapist already left a reply they won't do anything. If they really take it to court chris robert must prove the accusations so it's pretty much a win win scenario since he doesn't want to respond to the accusations.

What's this then?
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

[Vexus]

Do you know for certain Derek Smart had nothing to do with the article? Considering he has been sticking his hands in pretty much everything related to SC drama so far, and supposedly a lot of the accusations from Escapist articles are what Derek Smart has been saying for months.

What's this then?
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

Read the followup of the escapists which explains how they got the information and the accusations of robert's message.

As for the accusations he has yet to respond on anything regarding the game and finances. He simply ignores them.

[Vibe]

As for the accusations he has yet to respond on anything regarding the game and finances. He simply ignores them.

-Employees have indicated that Star Citizen and all of the promised stretch goals, “even with competent management,” could not be made for $90 million.

CR: How do you or they know this? Which employees said this and what makes them qualified to make that judgement? I know it’s what Derek Smart loves to say but he couldn’t make a good game with $200m so I don’t think his opinion matters. Outside of that, no employee beyond me and a few other key people who are leading Star Citizen would have the appropriate information and overview to make any judgement about the cost of the total project. Secondly, the company uses additional sources of funding such as tax incentives, marketing and product partnerships, but we do not discuss these issues in public for obvious reasons. We always keep a healthy cash reserve and operate our business prudently based on the incoming revenue. It should tell you something that we are actually increasing our global headcount not decreasing it despite the inaccurate rumours perpetuated by Derek Smart.


-Accusations of the mismanagement of money, including: using crowdfunding money to pay for couple’s Pacific Palisades mansion, using crowdfunding money to pay for personal vehicles, using crowdfunding money to pay for personal vacations, using company resources and employees to create videos for films and auditions (Sandi Gardiner).

CR: No crowdfunding monies are used for any private purposes – these allegations are completely false and defamatory. This is pure innuendo for nefarious purposes and I guarantee that anyone making this claim will be unable to show any proof of it as it simply hasn’t happened. Ever since Wing Commander came out I’ve been lucky enough to be financially independent, driven nice cars and lived in nice houses. That’s due to money earned through royalties, the sale of Origin to Electronic Arts, Digital Anvil to Microsoft and prudent investing. So why are people making a deal about me having these things now? I also find the continued attack on Sandi fairly alarming. Why is she being singled out? Because she’s my wife? A woman? Yes, she’s also an actress and there’s nothing wrong with her also engaging in one of her passions after hours or outside of work. We let employees play games of D&D in our conference room in the evenings or weekends. I don’t see attacks from Derek Smart about how this is a waste of company resources (and it is not his to comment on or judge anyhow).

-Allegations indicating that there are not currently any complete character builds for the game.

CR: Where are you getting this from? Have you guys really looked at what you can do right now in the game? You’ve been able to walk around your hangar since August of 2013. I’m pretty sure that was a complete character walking around rather than a mass hallucination. We have multiple characters in the game and are working on a lot more (of which some will be seen at Citizen Con).

Do I really need to go through all of this text? Because I really can't be arsed for someone talking out of his ass.