Mega-Alliances: Who's To Blame, What To Do?

[Rikthor]

LLJK, I could never figure out what their goals were, what their motivation was, or even who was leading them really.  All we knew was that their were a lot of them, they seemed fragmented, but a force to be reconned with.  I worked with LadyGAGA in planning some schemes to take DRZ territory and hand it over directly to LLJK in strat 1, but strat 1 died literally a day before the plan was to be implemented.  In Strat 2 I just didn't know what the fuck they were doing.  They were trying to join UIF then the NE, or at least this is what they were telling me.  So we ended up mercing for them for 50k strat gold a week.  When they couldn't or wouldn't pay up I went to ATS_Ecko and got 150k strat gold for agreeing to not merc for LLJK.  Not really intending to live up to our end of the agreement one way or the other. I could have cared less.  LLJK was doing a hell of a job fending off multiple aggressors at once.  We just laughed and laughed, we couldn't believe that Ecko had given us 150k gold for essentially nothing.

In other words, I was right. Thanks for admitting it. I will disagree with your post you were the most hated clan at least in the beginning of Strat 2, come on now, you can't say you were more hated than us poor LLJK when we had the super coalition of awful after us

[kinngrimm]

OT "What to do"
a while ago i made a suggestion under point 2) and still believe that would be a suitable way to go. An inbuilt Diplomatic Relation System which defines basic relations between Factions where the leaders of those factions need to confirm them. By Giving certain insentives like a shared Line of Sight for higher ranking officers you can give a slight advantage to Alliances so they would consider using the system. Then with that you can regulate Production/Trade so that huge alliances or huge single factions would loose some of their potential economy. If stuff would be transfered to other Faction outside the Diplomatic Relation Systems they would loose a lot of what is to be transfered, which is another way to get Factions to use that system so they can be balanced. Also something which is mentioned in other threads is a "unrest" system which but more i believe would go against huge clans with huge inactivity, not bad either.

Also don't get me wrong on the diplomatic system, i love how we do diplomacy atm, meeting on ts, sending pm's etc., i think that would not be obsolete at all or would you just accept an alliance with someone you never spoke to? This system is in my mind majorly a balancing tool, besides making it known who is with whom in bed, something anyone knows who keeps track of forum and battles anyway ... no secrets there ^^

[Spanish]

In other words, I was right. Thanks for admitting it. I will disagree with your post you were the most hated clan at least in the beginning of Strat 2, come on now, you can't say you were more hated than us poor LLJK when we had the super coalition of awful after us

Agreed back then when I saw the goon squad in the servers I went out of my way to try and brutally murder everyone wearing that pig banner. Now I miss the goons because they were so much more fun than fallen :/

[Mannhammer]

Now I miss the goons because they were so much more fun than fallen :/

Can't argue with you there. We're the Shit of cRPG. You ignore us, we smell up the room. Get mad and step on us, we get stuck in your shoe.

[KingBread]

I cant believe Smooth rich was even 10% right. This is madness i dunno what to do now ? Any help ?

(i need to go and rape some innocent humans i'm transtporting to "western" countries and pay Harpag to create 10 CD-Keys for me)

[HarunYahya]

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Thats not how u use history channel guy....
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[Son Of Odin]

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Thats not how u use history channel guy....

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Oh is that so? Do you remember the part from the show where he says "I'm not saying it was aliens but it was aliens!"

I think that quote is one of the most popular ones when it comes to that meme

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Yup, first one in the memegenerator list.
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[Vibe]

so when am I getting a piece of that Quatar oil monyz, I've been loyal to the brigade for way too long, I deserve some black liquid love

[Smoothrich]

real talk

Haha, thanks for posting by the way.  I actually think some of the Fallen made pictures about oil are pretty funny, but your explanation was pro real talk.  Taking out Northern Empire was great Strat drama, the grief you caused Ecko for putting all his eggs in 1 basket and instantly losing to FCC or whoever it was attacking was epic.

Most of the LLJK-Fallen tension came from the flaky merc agreement, because we were constantly besieged by EU clans and had to fight at odd times or counter attack on EU ping.  Fallen actually helped LLJK a great deal in Strat 2.0, after Shogunate wiped us out Fallen gave us shelter to build back up.  So we were pretty mad about having to pay, mercs being unreliable, then being cut off due to Ecko plotting.

Also the Great Khans were your vassal into the desert between us and Camel_Screamers, and we wanted to work with GK to fight Camels, but instead they started sharing fiefs and working together.  Always got shady answers about them from you which made us pissed/paranoid.

To be honest you were very good at playing Strat the way you did, and I probably took some tips out of it in managing my own shady alliances and plotting.  But you reaped what you sowed with the Northern Empire in Strat 3.0 by having Hospitallers, Occitan, and their EU allies teaming up to wipe you guys out right at the start.  And personally people I've made friends with in cRPG always seem to be strong allies regardless of clan or situation, just because we've helped each other before or get along.

Which was pretty much the point of my post.  Some alliances form out of mutual trust, others out of mutual hate.  I don't think you can "fix" alliances with shitty in game mechanics that make everything more difficult to play.  Its up to the players to make the game they want to play.

[Casimir]

Indeed the respect i hold for some of my enemies, due to past experiences playing cRPG can never be corrupted by what may happen in strategus.

the same is true of vice versa however, if your main contact with someone is through strategus, you will build your opinion of them based on how they act.

[dynamike]

It was the best in life to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of Goretooth.

Can we make posters of this?

[kinngrimm]

...instantly losing to FCC or whoever it was attacking was epic. ...

After 3 months constant warfare together with our contract partners The Mercenaries. Fending of 16 different clans and finally would be able to get rid of FCC ^^ Chaos showed up with 7k troops but wouldn't attack. We were curious and when contacted were told, that Chaos wants us to get into Peace Talks with FCC. After a marathon of 3 days with 7-10 hours pure negotiations each day, we came out with Matey rage quitting TS several times ;) a NAP with FCC, the contested claims confirmed and handed over to Mercs which then handed them over as part of our contract to Wolf Pack Mercenaries and Mercs/Wolves on the other hand paying troops & gold to FCC.

Those Troops & Gold then were used to invade NE. Now the funny part is, within those peace talks, FCC tried to strongarm us into joining their cause and attacking the Union. We but disagreed on that part. So while we thought they would take those troops to attack the Union, FCC afterwards choose another target, as history showed the Northern Empire. After FCC surprised NE and we stand in awe for how easy they went through their lines(i watched some battles and only was like OMG) Only one who put up a fight were Hospitallers of the NE. After FCC rushed in there, DRZ and Fallen came too and grab/snacked what they could ^^.

At that time i started planing for strategus 3 talking first time with Hospitallers,Crusaders, CotgS and others about possible alliance and goals. Which resulted in the Desert Alliance and taking on Fallen. I have to admit that the propaganda but also the actions i have seen in strat 2, shaped my view of Fallen and Loki overly negativ. I had at that point close to no relation with UIF, only in strat 3 through close vicinity to DRZ in the desert we came to an understanding to stay out of each others way and had strong Trade with Grey Order going as the far away bonus from one edge from the map to the other were just too juicy
Us attacking Fallen and their allies was i guess also seen positivly by UIF, which but i didn't care about as so was my mindset, when Fallen was dealt with there would be a chance to ally with LLJK and Chaos to go against UIF. As but Hospitallers and Chaos(LLJK too?) through some Forum trolling and i was told also trolling on the NA servers came to a bad view of each other and then getting into war with each other while also DRZ pressured north, that then was used by Grey Order/Nords to get us out of the desert and afterwards myself went offline as i was fairly exhausted and crusaders took on the cause against UIF. I can see that DRZ/GO applying for our battles was judged as us being part of the UIF, but we never recieved any resupplies from them and always were worried that the day would come they would attack us, well which as history showed also did.

[Canary]

After 3 months constant warfare together with our contract partners The Mercenaries. Fending of 16 different clans and finally would be able to get rid of FCC ^^ Chaos showed up with 7k troops but wouldn't attack. We were curious and when contacted were told, that Chaos wants us to get into Peace Talks with FCC. After a marathon of 3 days with 7-10 hours pure negotiations each day, we came out with Matey rage quitting TS several times ;) a NAP with FCC, the contested claims confirmed and handed over to Mercs which then handed them over as part of our contract to Wolf Pack Mercenaries and Mercs/Wolves on the other hand paying troops & gold to FCC.

Those were some crazy talks. Everyone was getting far too stressed out over the whole contest of personalities to behave rationally. Rhaelys had to go without his lunch one day, and that was rather appalling. I think everyone was happy just to have it over with, even if the final situation wasn't ideal for their standards.

Matey was, the whole time, fine with remaining at war. He was reiterating that fact by walking out when he wasn't being brought forth ideas that were of any merit to the FCC. The Mercs in particular were bargaining with some really lackluster ideas at first. It was frankly just as disrespectful how little credence their side gave to the FCC.

Those Troops & Gold then were used to invade NE. Now the funny part is, within those peace talks, FCC tried to strongarm us into joining their cause and attacking the Union. We but disagreed on that part. So while we thought they would take those troops to attack the Union, FCC afterwards choose another target, as history showed the Northern Empire.

I believe it was actually RuConquista that were originally putting the idea forth that we'd all join forces and attack Union, the pretense being to create a mutual enemy to channel the resources against instead of warring each other. Where the FCC was trying to get you on board was because the deal for teaming up and starting a war with someone else was already on the table. Eventually we all realized that it made no sense and it was dropped it as a condition for the peace. All along they wanted those troops and gold so that they could take them to go and fight somebody else, that was always their goal. The target was always, I think, entirely incidental.

Looking back on it, it would've made more sense just to join in and attack instead of initiating the peace talks. But that agreement was rather a novelty, and I doubt we'll see another outcome to a war similar to that one anytime soon. I'm not upset at the way things turned out, though, because it allowed the Northern Empire to crumble, which brought the diplomatic dynamic of strat to a whole different place. It's just a shame that they didn't offer more resistance/fun fights.

[kinngrimm]

...
Matey was, the whole time, fine with remaining at war. He was reiterating that fact by walking out when he wasn't being brought forth ideas that were of any merit to the FCC. ...

Looking back on it, it would've made more sense just to join in and attack instead of initiating the peace talks. But that agreement was rather a novelty, and I doubt we'll see another outcome to a war similar to that one anytime soon. I'm not upset at the way things turned out, though, because it allowed the Northern Empire to crumble, which brought the diplomatic dynamic of strat to a whole different place. It's just a shame that they didn't offer more resistance/fun fights.

I admit i was tired after 3 months constant warfare and i pressured mercs to the peace as also they needed to fullfill the contract between us and we both saw a chance to do so by these peace talks. But fighting on would have been ok too and there were voices also on our side which said, fuck it bring it on.
It all makes good for a nice story which i tell from time to time my clan mates  . ATS i was told has had problems as their main strategus guy was on holiday that time and Eko seemed to be a bit over his head, no offence mate, thats just what i heared. I had before that some nice talks with Eko and we had a NAP. After all of that i visited over several weeks regularly Hospitaller TS and come to know them pretty good Friday pub night 
And shortly before the next strategus was released i asked them if they wanna team up next strategus so we can fight the EU battles and them the NA battles as we both and surly lots of others were majorly annoyed by the ping and time differential.
Hospitallers didn't quite want to be back in a backseat in an alliance so we spoke about possible enemies and well  everyone knows what then happened in strat 3.

[Matey]

After 3 months constant warfare together with our contract partners The Mercenaries. Fending of 16 different clans and finally would be able to get rid of FCC ^^ Chaos showed up with 7k troops but wouldn't attack. We were curious and when contacted were told, that Chaos wants us to get into Peace Talks with FCC. After a marathon of 3 days with 7-10 hours pure negotiations each day, we came out with Matey rage quitting TS several times ;) a NAP with FCC, the contested claims confirmed and handed over to Mercs which then handed them over as part of our contract to Wolf Pack Mercenaries and Mercs/Wolves on the other hand paying troops & gold to FCC.

Those Troops & Gold then were used to invade NE. Now the funny part is, within those peace talks, FCC tried to strongarm us into joining their cause and attacking the Union. We but disagreed on that part. So while we thought they would take those troops to attack the Union, FCC afterwards choose another target, as history showed the Northern Empire. After FCC surprised NE and we stand in awe for how easy they went through their lines(i watched some battles and only was like OMG) Only one who put up a fight were Hospitallers of the NE. After FCC rushed in there, DRZ and Fallen came too and grab/snacked what they could ^^.

At that time i started planing for strategus 3 talking first time with Hospitallers,Crusaders, CotgS and others about possible alliance and goals. Which resulted in the Desert Alliance and taking on Fallen. I have to admit that the propaganda but also the actions i have seen in strat 2, shaped my view of Fallen and Loki overly negativ. I had at that point close to no relation with UIF, only in strat 3 through close vicinity to DRZ in the desert we came to an understanding to stay out of each others way and had strong Trade with Grey Order going as the far away bonus from one edge from the map to the other were just too juicy
Us attacking Fallen and their allies was i guess also seen positivly by UIF, which but i didn't care about as so was my mindset, when Fallen was dealt with there would be a chance to ally with LLJK and Chaos to go against UIF. As but Hospitallers and Chaos(LLJK too?) through some Forum trolling and i was told also trolling on the NA servers came to a bad view of each other and then getting into war with each other while also DRZ pressured north, that then was used by Grey Order/Nords to get us out of the desert and afterwards myself went offline as i was fairly exhausted and crusaders took on the cause against UIF. I can see that DRZ/GO applying for our battles was judged as us being part of the UIF, but we never recieved any resupplies from them and always were worried that the day would come they would attack us, well which as history showed also did.

Canary already did an awesome job addressing this, but I do feel like I should also weigh in. I did indeed (fake) rage quit talks a few times just to make sure the other side of talks would understand that they couldn't give us a shitty deal and be done with us. Also, our insistence on Mercs sharing in any war with union was because we had no interest in launching some suicide attack if no one else was confident enough to participate (we had also been told grey order would be either neutral or supporting of such a war, which was probably not true) and yeah I'm pretty sure ruconquista came up with that idea. We eventually got the impression from Rhaelys that we either had to make some deal or have CHAOS turn on us, so we ended up making the deal where we would just take some troops and gold and go elsewhere, thats when Loki suggested that we work with Fallen and DRZ against the NE; it was supposed to be an epic war and in a way it was epic... just not in the way we expected... and of course DRZ was just using us in that effort, but meh we ended up having another real war against them and their vass... allies() afterwards that was pretty fun even if it did really piss me off at first.