Cav is a Problem

[Ptolemy]

If your horse is being shot down that easily, you're doing it wrong. I ride a desert horse on my HA alt and it's best defence is that it's movement abilities make it hard to hit due to unpredictability. My unloomed desert horse will usually take 3 arrows before going down to a fourth, sometimes fifth. It's all about how you ride the horse, not how many hit points it has - a desert horse, if ridden carefully, can easily last you all round.

[Mlekce]

Yeah enemy archers can be a problem for that ponys.
Use morena tactic avoid archers and inf,go and terorise cav and loners in some less dangerous part of map,and when moust of ppl are dead come and terorise them and profit.

[Joseph Porta]

If your horse is being shot down that easily, you're doing it wrong. I ride a desert horse on my HA alt and it's best defence is that it's movement abilities make it hard to hit due to unpredictability. My unloomed desert horse will usually take 3 arrows before going down to a fourth, sometimes fifth. It's all about how you ride the horse, not how many hit points it has - a desert horse, if ridden carefully, can easily last you all round.

so I got to "dance" with my horse! i'll try but for some reason i live entire rounds on my sumpter yet i die in a blink on my desert/arabian/whatever.. 

[Joseph Porta]

Yeah enemy archers can be a problem for that ponys.
Use morena tactic avoid archers and inf,go and terorise cav and loners in some less dangerous part of map,and when moust of ppl are dead come and terorise them and profit.

i dont like chasing cav as a HA,it's fairly boring just riding behind someone shooting at them. I'd rather ride around and shoot at everything that moves!

[BattalGazi]

It takes only one mistake to die as a HA considering the really low armor and all sacrificed skill points you have ( 0 IF, 0 PS basically ) and mainly agi builds ( for the sake of HA you have less str builds which means low HP )

I really dont want to see any nerf on  HA anymore. I already lost %95 of my gold to upkeep since i started HA and i really will be upset with this game if another nerf comes ...

[Kafein]

Strenght-based yumi HA are the most popular actually, and they seem to be the most effective too.

[Thomek]

yes, OP is right.

[XyNox]

Once again it comes down to missing teamplay. Just a little support from inf, be it pikemen, hoplites or even a 2h can make archers pretty much untouchable for cav if working together. Those archers in turn could defend surrounding melees from cav rather easily. Sadly most of those inf are busy holding W until they collide with the next tree while spamming "fokkin my old friendchurs" in chat.

For me as a lvl 33 longbowman I can take down most unarmored horses in 3 - 4 shots, even less if landing a headshot (which have awkward hitboxes btw). High lvl, heavy armored cav + shield however can basicly just faceroll without any chance of countering.
I need about 5 - 7 arrows for a large warhorse which completely eliminates the possibillity to take down this horse before it reaches me, neither is it possible to shoot the rider due to his handheld-energyshield-device that also can absorb some of the horse hits. High lvl cav has well enough mobility to simply stunlock me then with bumps before I can release another shot. If I keep my bow out I get either oneshot by a lance or a 1h swing, not matter where it hits me. If I take my handaxe out ill glance off of that armored horsearse. Chance of survival without any help = 0%

Im not really complaining though that some cav builds can take me out with relatively low skill involved, afterall this game is rock-paper-scissor balanced and cav is my counter sort of. Its the teammates who are to blame who just run around mindlessly but as long as the game wont tell people how to play, nothing will change. Therefore Id like to quite Joker here, who probably made the most reasonable post regarding this matter I read so far.

- Change the gamemode. Battle needs to be removed, conquest implemented. Give infantry a goal which they can accomplish, like conquering and holding terrain. Currently the goal of an infantry player is: kill the enemy team by getting into melee range. Including the ATH crutching archers and the riders who sit on horses. (And I don't see those classes being limited on who they can engage...  )

cRPG right now is a big game chance. You go around that corner and hope you find some paper, you being scissors.

This model of balance can only work when class advantages are merged with teamplay, which is not given at the moment on a public server. People are playing this game for long enough and were given the time and chance to get into learning how to take advantage of class synergies and it simply didnt happen till now if you look at the big picture. Unless the game does not force people to use their strengths by giving them different goales to accomplish you will always see four 2h chasing a single HA through the map while 30 m to the left the ranged are getting slaughtered by lancers and shielders.

It does only make sense that 2h gets shot to pieces and 1h gets bumplanced to death without any support and cant be regulated by nerfs or buffs. Right now, if the odds are against you and the enemy team has more counters than your team, you lose, and thats bullshit.

What we need is a new fresh gamemode that does not simply drop scorpions and mice alike in a big cage and is called "battle" but rather something that lets you choose what objective you wanna complete and what your way to accomplish it will be, not just running around trying to kill each other. Else, looking at the rapid loss of players over the last few months I think cRPG will be dead soon.

[Son Of Odin]

Yup..  Cav is a real problem for c-rpg.

I'll write the ultimate rage post in a few weeks. No time to play atm..

Oh here you are .

(click to show/hide)

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I wondered where your post to this thread was.

Also BIG +1 to XyNox and Joker's idea about conquest. Although battle shouldn't be completely removed.

[Dexxtaa]

Once again it comes down to missing teamplay. Just a little support from inf, be it pikemen, hoplites or even a 2h can make archers pretty much untouchable for cav if working together. Those archers in turn could defend surrounding melees from cav rather easily. Sadly most of those inf are busy holding W until they collide with the next tree while spamming "fokkin my old friendchurs" in chat.

For me as a lvl 33 longbowman I can take down most unarmored horses in 3 - 4 shots, even less if landing a headshot (which have awkward hitboxes btw). High lvl, heavy armored cav + shield however can basicly just faceroll without any chance of countering.
I need about 5 - 7 arrows for a large warhorse which completely eliminates the possibillity to take down this horse before it reaches me, neither is it possible to shoot the rider due to his handheld-energyshield-device that also can absorb some of the horse hits. High lvl cav has well enough mobility to simply stunlock me then with bumps before I can release another shot. If I keep my bow out I get either oneshot by a lance or a 1h swing, not matter where it hits me. If I take my handaxe out ill glance off of that armored horsearse. Chance of survival without any help = 0%

Im not really complaining though that some cav builds can take me out with relatively low skill involved, afterall this game is rock-paper-scissor balanced and cav is my counter sort of. Its the teammates who are to blame who just run around mindlessly but as long as the game wont tell people how to play, nothing will change. Therefore Id like to quite Joker here, who probably made the most reasonable post regarding this matter I read so far.

cRPG right now is a big game chance. You go around that corner and hope you find some paper, you being scissors.

This model of balance can only work when class advantages are merged with teamplay, which is not given at the moment on a public server. People are playing this game for long enough and were given the time and chance to get into learning how to take advantage of class synergies and it simply didnt happen till now if you look at the big picture. Unless the game does not force people to use their strengths by giving them different goales to accomplish you will always see four 2h chasing a single HA through the map while 30 m to the left the ranged are getting slaughtered by lancers and shielders.

It does only make sense that 2h gets shot to pieces and 1h gets bumplanced to death without any support and cant be regulated by nerfs or buffs. Right now, if the odds are against you and the enemy team has more counters than your team, you lose, and thats bullshit.

What we need is a new fresh gamemode that does not simply drop scorpions and mice alike in a big cage and is called "battle" but rather something that lets you choose what objective you wanna complete and what your way to accomplish it will be, not just running around trying to kill each other. Else, looking at the rapid loss of players over the last few months I think cRPG will be dead soon.

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[Joker86]

Also BIG +1 to XyNox and Joker's idea about conquest. Although battle shouldn't be completely removed.

Thanks, but I fear I have to insist on replacement, not complement. The round based team deathmatch mode (called "battle") is advantageous for those classes which are a) mobile and b) flexible in who they can attack, where and when. Which is extremely beneficial for classes like horse archers, and rather depressing for slow melee infantry*. That's why all those players, who play the "battle"-friendly classes, will stay on the battle server, and mostly infantry will switch to the conquest server. As pure infantry fights with the minority of the playership are not really exciting, the infantry will be more or less forced to come back to battle, and nothing will have changed, except of having yet another server which only serves a fringe group like DTV or Rageball. Force cavalry and archers to be the supporting classes in conquest, and the gameplay will grow a lot "healthier".

Seriously, I can even imagine there could be room for buffing archers (dmg, precision, etc.) and cavalry (upkeep, horse durability...) in conquest.


Edit: *: Please keep in mind that I am not talking about the effectivity of the class, the amount of kills and so on. I am talking about the general "gameplay feeling" of the class. Sure, kills add to improving it, but other things can kill it much faster, like not being able to protect yourself against an enemy without being able to do him harm, as you have it when a 2hd meets a horse archer. It is pretty frustrating to know that you need to kill that horse archer to win the battle, but you can't. Sure, it's a plain example with a lot of factors left out, but I hope you understand what I mean.

[Taser]

I highly doubt it Joker. Conquest will probably be a big hit if they do it right and battle shouldn't be removed. Siege might be though.

[Crob28]

I highly doubt it Joker. Conquest will probably be a big hit if they do it right and battle shouldn't be removed. Siege might be though.

Hands off my siege!!! You... you monster!

[Thomek]

This topic has been discussed to bits and pieces too many times, but the cav lobby keeps riding on lead by Odin and Kafein, not realizing that battle-gameplay is completely destroyed for infantry atm, a big part of the reason we see so few players nowadays.

Just to recap:
1. Cav is not OP 1vs1.  OK, true in most cases but BATTLE IS NOT 1vs1
2. If just infantry would organize.. TRUE, but they shouldn't have to organize better than cav to reach similar efficiency.
3. In time this "wave of cav will pass like 2h and archerwaves" Not true, archerwaves have been countered by justified nerfs. The cav-wave we see now is a result of 2h skill levels rising, thus players seeking the easy way out cause they can't compete on the ground.
4. "But cav is not easy". Yes it is very easy to get kills with it. Especially if you are riding around with loomed lances and horses.
5. "But it's expensive!"  Doesn't seem to be a major problem...
6. It's all GK's fault! No, they are just using the system as it was laid out for them.

TOO MUCH CAV CREATES LAME DEATHS FOR EVERYONE ELSE:
* Ninja-backstabs:   Super-silent insta-kills with very little risk involved, and super speedy getaway. The speed of the horse enables cav players to zoom past many, many, many more targets than an infantry player can even think about approaching.
* Bumps. Extremely powerful stun that enables other cav and teamplayers to get the kill.
* The easiest headshots in the game. A cav player simply needs to hold his lance or sword at the right angle to hit the soft-spot doubling(?) the damage given.

To sum it up, all this cav-bundle of sticksry is killing the mod. Players are leaving like never before. Perhaps I'm a bit extreme, but I figure it's time to shout out loud.

It's rather shocking that Kafein and Odin are so blinded to this fact, and would rather see the mod, FUN and gameplay die, than to actually look for some radical solutions at this point.


Simple solution is simple.
- Nerf lance damage further to compensate for the easyness of achieving headshots.
- Nerf maneuverability.

Something is wrong when I do way way more average damage with my 4ps alt on an arabian than I do with a GS on my other alt.. And yes. Those arabians ARE go carts and ridiculous.

And stop dreaming about "conquest" afaik that mode is mostly in Jokers head atm. Is a new game-mode the solution to cav being OP in battle???? What are you smoking?

[Son Of Odin]

(click to show/hide)

This topic has been discussed to bits and pieces too many times, but the cav lobby keeps riding on lead by Odin and Kafein, not realizing that battle-gameplay is completely destroyed for infantry atm, a big part of the reason we see so few players nowadays.

Just to recap:
1. Cav is not OP 1vs1.  OK, true in most cases but BATTLE IS NOT 1vs1
2. If just infantry would organize.. TRUE, but they shouldn't have to organize better than cav to reach similar efficiency.
3. In time this "wave of cav will pass like 2h and archerwaves" Not true, archerwaves have been countered by justified nerfs. The cav-wave we see now is a result of 2h skill levels rising, thus players seeking the easy way out cause they can't compete on the ground.
4. "But cav is not easy". Yes it is very easy to get kills with it. Especially if you are riding around with loomed lances and horses.
5. "But it's expensive!"  Doesn't seem to be a major problem...
6. It's all GK's fault! No, they are just using the system as it was laid out for them.

TOO MUCH CAV CREATES LAME DEATHS FOR EVERYONE ELSE:
* Ninja-backstabs:   Super-silent insta-kills with very little risk involved, and super speedy getaway. The speed of the horse enables cav players to zoom past many, many, many more targets than an infantry player can even think about approaching.
* Bumps. Extremely powerful stun that enables other cav and teamplayers to get the kill.
* The easiest headshots in the game. A cav player simply needs to hold his lance or sword at the right angle to hit the soft-spot doubling(?) the damage given.

To sum it up, all this cav-bundle of sticksry is killing the mod. Players are leaving like never before. Perhaps I'm a bit extreme, but I figure it's time to shout out loud.

It's rather shocking that Kafein and Odin are so blinded to this fact, and would rather see the mod, FUN and gameplay die, than to actually look for some radical solutions at this point.


Simple solution is simple.
- Nerf lance damage further to compensate for the easyness of achieving headshots.
- Nerf maneuverability.

Something is wrong when I do way way more average damage with my 4ps alt on an arabian than I do with a GS on my other alt.. And yes. Those arabians ARE go carts and ridiculous.

And stop dreaming about "conquest" afaik that mode is mostly in Jokers head atm. Is a new game-mode the solution to cav being OP in battle???? What are you smoking?

Hahaha sorry, just had to quote that for later use in case you want to ninja edit it.
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