Author Topic: Cav stacking  (Read 6809 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 460
  • Infamy: 71
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Byzantium the intolerant, lactose_the_...
    • View Profile
Cav stacking
« on: September 10, 2012, 06:23:43 pm »
+8
Hello all.

You are not without knowing the great GK thread discussion in general discussion.
As this concerns game balance, I am opening a thread here hoping we can seriously discuss the matter

Before we start, I dont want any post such as : "lol cav is EZ mode, i had a alt once i did couch lance op bs bundle of sticksry"

And if there are any GK to post here, i wish to see them have adult responses as : "Yes true the cav stacking is bat but...." etc

if not I ask any normal person to jsut minus one to post into oblivion

Discuss!


Offline Torben

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2011
  • Infamy: 352
  • cRPG Player Sir White Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • still prepare to get sexed
    • View Profile
  • Faction: by my overly nerfed heavy lance.
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 06:26:27 pm »
+6
(click to show/hide)


wee need a class balance that is prioritized just next to the clan balance.
Yes, I know from whence I came! Discontented as a flame, Upon myself I live and glow. All I grasp like lightning flashes, All I leave behind is ashes
Flame I am - that much I know!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Siiem

  • Heretic
  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 611
  • Infamy: 129
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 06:28:11 pm »
+6
The GK are ruthlessly effective at ridiculing any weak thread they come across!

Offline Torben

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2011
  • Infamy: 352
  • cRPG Player Sir White Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • still prepare to get sexed
    • View Profile
  • Faction: by my overly nerfed heavy lance.
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 06:29:32 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)
Yes, I know from whence I came! Discontented as a flame, Upon myself I live and glow. All I grasp like lightning flashes, All I leave behind is ashes
Flame I am - that much I know!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Joker86

  • Mad & Bad
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1226
  • Infamy: 324
  • cRPG Player
  • Why so serious?
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Companions
  • Game nicks: Joker86_TP
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 06:35:08 pm »
+4
Okay, although I posted enough stuff in your previous topic, here it is again:

- although cav stacking can be dealt with by teamplay and tactics, it doesn't make it better. You can't expect teamplay from the random cRPG-autowalker-lemming-Rambo-retard, the game offers no tools for tactics or issueing commands, and what if the cav team uses tactics, too?

- The same thing applies for archers. Both archers and cav have higher mobility which also means better protection, while they also have a higher flexibility in who they can engage and when. Which leads to the weird effect that the more archers and/or cav you have, the more powerful a team becomes.

- The main problem is NOT the deadlyness of cav or archers, I would even dare to say it is sub-par, but their amount is the problem. That's why any suggestion which aims towards nerfing certain stats won't solve the problem. (Although the Arab Warhorse is a bad balancing joke, I hope!)

- Implement a system which first balances the team by banner, then looks which classes the players had who were balanced by banner, and then finally fills up the remaining slots with corresponding classes. It's not that difficult...  :rolleyes:

- Change the gamemode. Battle needs to be removed, conquest implemented. Give infantry a goal which they can accomplish, like conquering and holding terrain. Currently the goal of an infantry player is: kill the enemy team by getting into melee range. Including the ATH crutching archers and the riders who sit on horses. (And I don't see those classes being limited on who they can engage...  :rolleyes: )

- Implement a commnder system which really works with random public players

- And as you are on it, change the upkeep system to another kind of equipment restriction system. You can't have a marketplace and expect players to be limited by gold.  :lol:
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 06:44:11 pm by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
î saved for eternety (without context  :mrgreen:)

Offline Moncho

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1127
  • Infamy: 221
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Moncho, Some_Random_STF, Some_Random_Troll
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 06:37:13 pm »
-3
lol cav is EZ mode, i had a alt once i did couch lance op bs bundle of sticksry

nah seriously, posting here for a fun read later.

Offline Torben

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2011
  • Infamy: 352
  • cRPG Player Sir White Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • still prepare to get sexed
    • View Profile
  • Faction: by my overly nerfed heavy lance.
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 06:40:15 pm »
+4
(click to show/hide)

just use the "notify" option lower right hand corner,  and bare us anything that could derail ze sread again, ja? 
Yes, I know from whence I came! Discontented as a flame, Upon myself I live and glow. All I grasp like lightning flashes, All I leave behind is ashes
Flame I am - that much I know!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Turboflex

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 648
  • Infamy: 212
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Ravens of Valhalla
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 06:40:41 pm »
+4
Clans should be able to banner stack, there is nothing wrong with that, it's a lot more fun to play with clanmates. Breaking up clans to balancing based on class would be terrible.

The problem is that cav is OP. Usually when it's scattered cav the randomizer generally creates 50/50 mix so it's not too bad, but when any kind of clan comes in that's over-leveraged on cav players introduces a 5-15 cav imbalance onto the field it creates a massive imbalance of overpowered players. It's not just GK but we also saw it on NA a few months ago with PRO, and now again sometimes when all of Cavaliers/BRD mounts up.

The only people who are in denial of this are self interested cav players.

Offline Torben

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2011
  • Infamy: 352
  • cRPG Player Sir White Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • still prepare to get sexed
    • View Profile
  • Faction: by my overly nerfed heavy lance.
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 06:44:23 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)

I do not agree.  as soon as there is not a cav stack but a ranged stack on one side,  that becomes "op" as well.

its
- high amounts of enemies that can attack without being attacked (constant pressure)
- one sided teamplay/ ts use
- class needing less skill to support higher skilled players more effectively

prioritize clan balance  just slightly above of banner balance,  and we are good. 

edit:

same amount of riding skill,  shield skill,  power draw on both sides.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 06:48:20 pm by Torben »
Yes, I know from whence I came! Discontented as a flame, Upon myself I live and glow. All I grasp like lightning flashes, All I leave behind is ashes
Flame I am - that much I know!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 460
  • Infamy: 71
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Byzantium the intolerant, lactose_the_...
    • View Profile
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 06:45:07 pm »
+1
thank you joker for posting again, but the lack of visibility of worthy arguments was such that i had to create another thread.

But i would disagree on a certain point.stacking melee on one side wont cause to much trouble to the enemy team, they can get raped by archers cav and other melees. ranged is a problem but it can be overcome with cav and good shielders. On the other hand cav....

I disagree on arab horse, i find it fine. what makes me more twitchy on the other hand is the destrier who is far to effective for 5 riding skill giving any infantry a ride on a the best all around horse, making him as effective as any other dedicated cav. This is why, imo there are so much cav. For me Destrier>arab>courser
Maybe destrier 6 riding skill?

This

- Implement a system which first balances the team by banner, then looks which classes the players had who were balanced by banner, and then finally fills up the remaining slots with corresponding classes. It's not that difficult...  :rolleyes:




Offline Thomek

  • El Director
  • OKAM Developer
  • ***
  • Renown: 1372
  • Infamy: 481
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • Ninja Guide Wiki
  • Faction: Ninja_
  • Game nicks: Ninja_Thomek
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 06:46:04 pm »
+2
The only people who are in denial of this are self interested cav players.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Chagan_Arslan

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 372
  • Infamy: 155
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Chagan_Arslan
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 06:48:43 pm »
-2
The GK are ruthlessly effective at ridiculing any weak thread they come across!

true, never considered you a hard target from a horseback

pack of denbitre guys, bloody_nine, leshma, mala, bagge, jambi those are hard targets to kill as a cav

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1272
  • Infamy: 971
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Faction: Frisian Church of Mork The Goat God
  • Game nicks: Zlisch
  • IRC nick: IRC nick: Tears
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 06:49:52 pm »
+2
"lol cav is EZ mode, i had a alt once i did couch lance op bs bundle of sticksry"

I love this reference to Thomeks post in your last thread.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Overdriven

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 828
  • Infamy: 223
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Overdriven
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 06:50:09 pm »
-1
I don't mind class stacking. It's usually only for 1 map if it happens and then things get rebalanced. Clans changing things is a rare ocurrance so that can't really be taken into equation. I also have an alt of almost any class so if I see there are a high number of archers or cav or whatever on the server I'll switch to an alt rather than getting miserable over the fact I'm being shot to pieces by archers because I have no shield or frustrated with cav because my weapon is to short.

There are ways to combat any class stacking, though a lot of it can rely on team mates and I think that is where the problem lies.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1272
  • Infamy: 971
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Faction: Frisian Church of Mork The Goat God
  • Game nicks: Zlisch
  • IRC nick: IRC nick: Tears
Re: Cav stacking
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 06:50:46 pm »
0
The problem is that cav is OP
The problem is that NH players are naturally even less intelligent than Euretards.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.