[balance] buff cav vs cav while nerfbuffing buffnerfingly cav vs inf

[Torben]

Remove couching from all thrustable lances and in return give  us the old lance  angle back.
Bjord was my muse on this one  :*

Edit:
Concequences: less inf being oneshotted
indirect buff to heavy horses, cause they cant be destroyed that easily by other cav (Not good imo)
Less attack diversity but more possibilities for lancers (hope that makes any sence)
Probably a shift towards more str in cav or to the normal Lance, that has more damage output

Bottom line: i cant for sure say  that  this would be an improvement, but i think its worth a discussion.

[CrazyCracka420]

I'd be okay removing couch from my heavy lance if I get the old lance angle back    I don't think that's a trade most infantry will actually want to see, even though they may think it.

The only thing that would piss me off and when I mainly use couching of the lance, is when there's only a couple infantry left, and there's no way to sneak up on them, they can just down block endlessly. 

[Torben]

I'd be okay removing couch from my heavy lance if I get the old lance angle back    I don't think that's a trade most infantry will actually want to see, even though they may think it.

The only thing that would piss me off and when I mainly use couching of the lance, is when there's only a couple infantry left, and there's no way to sneak up on them, they can just down block endlessly.

Bump Lance them.

[San]

Would be better than how it is currently.

Probably a shift towards more str in cav or to the normal Lance, that has more damage output

Bottom line: i cant for sure say  that  this would be an improvement, but i think its worth a discussion.

Not too sure about this, though. Is heavy lance > lance with the old angle? I am a strength cav and I feel strong enough already. The reg lance might become a bit too strong if it doesn't have much of a disadvantage against the heavy lance.

[Torben]

Not too sure about this, though. Is heavy lance > lance with the old angle? I am a strength cav and I feel strong enough already. The reg lance might become a bit too strong if it doesn't have much of a disadvantage against the heavy lance.

My take is that the higher speed of the normal lance, especially on an agile horse, can make up for the 10cm less range if it comes down to a real dual. In mids of the battle, i see the longer range having the advantage for sure. Tbh they seem to be two viable options for slightly different attack approaches. Also, inf will have an easier time vs reg lance than heavy. So ya, i think great problem will be the light lance, it might get similar obsolete like the double sided lance has become. But lets think about these things when they become relevant : )

[Torben]

Tzar remembers all to well, what the old lanceangle implicates. Share your experience dude.

[Tzar]

Please change the amount of lances that can couch, it makes no sense that you can couch with heavy lance. There are 2 lances that are specifically for couch lancing, make them exclusively couchable.

+1 for bjord suggestion



There is no need for wtf lance angle that would just be replacing the turd with another turd...

An while the old lance angle made it more fun to duel cav vs cav it was just retardedly easy to lance people with the huge wide lance angle of the good old days.

In other words plz no... i dont see why cav would need a buff just because they wouldn't be able to lol couch with the regular heavy lance anymore..

[Torben]

You Do get that i suggest removing the couch of all the thrust lances though right?
Dont see a buff in this but a trade off. Inf would have to cope with cav attacking straight up and not almost only backstabbing, and in return would not have to worry about being oneshot backstabbed constantly (cause the lower reach caoch is mostly used against unaware)

[Cepeshi]

Tbh i think giving the angle this limited was one of the best things that happened to cRPG. And yes, i did play cav with both patches. This would buff cav quite hard in my eyes against infantry, as they would have more maneuverable space form which to bother them poor landslugs. There was nothing worse tan a guy backstabbing you looking like doctor Octopus from god knows where. When you get annoyed by two or three cav players, if all lancers, you can predict what is gonna happen quite good, with the old angle you would stand no chance.

At least my opinion, agree or not, keep it civil for further discussions.

[oprah_winfrey]

This would just be a huge buff to cav in general.

[Torben]

Hm ja. As stated in my post, i myself havent quite made my mind up and i want your opinions and a civil discussion. As a cav, i so badly want more room for various different approaches, but i dont at all want to fuck up balance. I thought removing the couch would Do the trick. 

Btw: Do take into account, that the heavy lance and all horses have been nerfed since back then, that there are more anti cav infs on the field and battle awareness has  greatly risen.

I Do think that the old angle would not have overall the great impact on cav vs inf  you fear, lots of kills are done by couching these days.

[Cepeshi]

Hm ja. As stated in my post, i myself havent quite made my mind up and i want your opinions and a civil discussion. As a cav, i so badly want more room for various different approaches, but i dont at all want to fuck up balance. I thought removing the couch would Do the trick. 

Btw: Do take into account, that the heavy lance and all horses have been nerfed since back then, that there are more anti cav infs on the field and battle awareness has  greatly risen.

I Do think that the old angle would not have overall the great impact on cav vs inf  you fear, lots of kills are done by couching these days.

The problem is, awareness went up cause we do not have to pay attention to crazy shoulder dislocating lancers poking us from their backs.

And, tbh, the demand for go kart, i mean Arabian warhorse, speaks for sometihng, Yes, horses do survive less, but in hands of skilled guy even rouncey is freaking dangerous. Not to speak with the old angle... yeah, really, no 

[CrazyCracka420]

it was worth the discussion, but removing couching and giving us the old lance angle on heavy lances would be a huge buff for cavalry (IMO).  Couching only works on unaware people as it stands.  If you see me coming (unless maybe if I'm on a +3 Arabian) you are going to be able to get out of the way of my couched lance.

I think it's funny how Spook and some others (like apparently Tzar) think that couching is "press X to win" mode.  Couching is much harder to land a hit than thrusting at someone.  Thrusting at aware enemies is just as hard to hit them as couching aware enemies.  All they have to do is down block.

Also I like to couch heavily armored horses when I have made 5 passes at them already and tried to lance their horse (because they are constantly down blocking) and I get manually blocked without hitting their horse ever. 

I personally would think the lance angle would buff cav too strong, but I don't think removing couching would be good either (it would certainly be a buff to infantry and non-lance cav, but I wouldn't like that it gives me one less option for dealing with people).

Also to keep this in perspective, I hardly ever 1 hit someone if I thrust hit them at full HP (unless I hit their head and they aren't wearing a helmet or they are a very low strength build).  Which I think is ridiculous when I ride the fastest horse in the game, and am thrusting a weapon that comes down a needle point at the tip.  I'm not a physics major, but that's a lot of pounds per square inch on that tiny little point.

[oprah_winfrey]

No, it really is as easy as pressing X.

[Teeth]

Give old lance angle back, nerf maneuver 20%, buff horse hp 20%.