Ideas to buff infantry

[sF_Guardian]

There never was a ''all tincan time''

Even alot of archers were tincans (okay, Transitional and stuff, not bright steel)
in my early days in this mod, thats what I`m refering too.

[Joker86]

Why does infantry need a buff. Explain that first.

As some of you may have noticed, we already have several topics in the general discussion and the suggestion corner which are about cav+archers vs. infantry, one of the oldest topics in cRPG at all. Since the beginning of the game cavalry and archers made the life of many infantry players really hard and often demotivating, at least to a wider extend than vice versa (you don't see many archers or cavalry complain about infantry).

[CrazyCracka420]

I don't complain about any classes or play styles.  Well except for those fuckers who leech for weeks or months (or their whole career) with gear that costs less than 300 gold total.

[Bobthehero]

Even alot of archers were tincans (okay, Transitional and stuff, not bright steel)
in my early days in this mod, thats what I`m refering too.

That was a myth, there was far more light armor and medium armored peopel back then, the peak of plate was actually when the new money system was introduced, which made plate armor easy to get, but then everyone realised it was shitty and now its now.

[sF_Guardian]

That was a myth, there was far more light armor and medium armored peopel back then, the peak of plate was actually when the new money system was introduced, which made plate armor easy to get, but then everyone realised it was shitty and now its now.

Well, I just remember alot of ppl from Siege wearin plate, may be due to the fact that light armored ppl
are not that impressive.
At least I remember a squad of plate archers and guys like Phyrex, Tormen or TheFinn, Otec and stuff.
(Hitted Otec 7 Times from the back with my 27 str Great Maul, after that he turned around and onehitted me (9 if, Mamluk Mail)


Those were the days of the mighty guys in plate, nowadays it`s more a gimmick and that what it`s supposed to be imo.

[Joker86]

Those were the days of the mighty guys in plate, nowadays it`s more a gimmick and that what it`s supposed to be imo.

Due to my personal taste I have to disagree. It's still a medieval game, and armour should matter. You need bad light and good heavy armour, so that the player needs to make a choice. Making choices makes character building interesting. Having bad light and bad heavy armour leaves you no choice, and thus the game becomes less entertaining. Let alone the fact that heavily armoured "tanks" can add to the game, if balanced properly.

[GanForr]

What about a standard bearer system? Someone who guides the footmen thanks to his banner and give some bonus to who stand near him. Maybe gibe the possibility to carry a banner only to 1Hers without shield, to encoourage this sub-used class.

I like your first point, joker.

[HELM]

Even alot of archers were tincans (okay, Transitional and stuff, not bright steel)
in my early days in this mod, thats what I`m refering too.

I agree with this dude. i played this Mod since the beginning, and even I, who barely played/play had a full Milanese and Elegant poleaxe. That was the day when Tincans would just run into a crowd of people (since cash and xp were proximity to kill programed) and swing wildly with poleaxe or flammy and take out 3-4 guys before being put down.

Oh yea, and lets not forget Lady Gagas war elephant of doom. you dont see that anymore either, she was the epidemy of the tincan era

i dont think we want to go back to the era where 1 player can take out half of the other team just based off of equipment.

[Joker86]

What people forget when complaining about those tincan monsters which were almost unkillable is, that at that time the players a) had a higher max level. Some were even 42 or something like that, if I remember correctly, which means they had much higher STR values (giving them more survivability) or more AGI (making them faster and allowing them to take down more enemies before dying), and b) the game itself was faster and deadlier. You had a higher WPF and the weapons were faster, with lower skill requirements for items. If you raise the STR requirement of the buffed plate armours you will indeed have tough enemies, but their swings will be that slow, instead of parrying them you can simply walk backwards out of reach... after you saw they released the swing.

[Miwiw]

You are talking about doing choices. You are doing something wrong.

Again:

Why does infantry need a buff. Explain that first.

Give me 1 good reason. Infantry has always and will always be the most important and actually best "class", not only due to several build/ weapon choices.

[CrazyCracka420]

I agree that melee infantry has, and will always be, the most important class in the game.  They change the tide of the battle.  The term infantry is not the same as one person with a melee weapon trying to be rambo.

Cavalry can't touch a group of infantry who have spearmen to keep cavalry at bay.  Archers can't shoot through shield walls.  Cavalry can't slaughter enemy infantry as fast or as efficiently as a coordinated group of footmen.  Archers are weak if they are the focus of the enemy team (rather than being able to shoot at people who are distracted). 

[Zerran]

1. I'm all for it, but I really doubt it will change anything. Still worth a shot though.

2. I'm conflicted about this. On the one hand, it would be really great for teamwork and would very much help different classes function differently. But on the other hand it just doesn't really fit in with the game's mechanics. However I would be for the addition of "special" abilities being given for the support classes. Things kind of like this: http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/nudge-and-general-off-hand-fun/msg583456/#msg583456

Also in general, it would be nice to see people have more reasons for playing support classes. Pikes and LS are more or less OK (though I wouldn't be opposed to a little buff  ), but primarily shielders have had a huge portion of their abilities stripped away. Especially in regards to their ability to "counter" archers. Right now, they not only don't counter archers, but they have little better defense against them than a wiggle dancing 2Her.

Essentially I'd like to see more classes get abilities (similar to the off-hand stuff paul talks about in that link) that are basically useless in 1v1, but can help your buddy(s) get hits in.

In particular I think the board shields could use some work. They SHOULD be (imo) the perfect support shield. Very slow, so they can't really duel well, but very very tough, and allow even a low shield skill shielder to block 100% of arrows coming in from at least a 90 degree arc in front of him (possibly even 120 degrees). Something like this http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/dropping-board-shield-creates-set-up-pavise/msg554256/#msg554256 would also be fantastic.

3. OH GOD PLEASE YES. Battle is atrocious with no defined goals other than "kill the enemy". This is another way of telling everyone "Sit around and camp the whole map if you want to win." It also is one of the main reasons infantry get their asses handed to them regularly in battle in horrible ways. Infantry are the best possible class for holding and taking key positions, not for the kiting ranged and sneaky cav fest that is battle.

4. I'm not really sure about this, as I like the idea of hybrids. However, I do agree that the skill system is desperately in need of an overhaul.

5. YES. Right now, heavy armor gives and medium armor are almost identical, save a little bit of armor and weight difference. Heavy infantry performs basically the exact role that medium and light infantry do with the current system. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE. I would be 100% for your suggestion here. Heavy armor, medium armor, and light armor should all fill different roles. Honestly I don't think they should even cost anything different, but rather they should have positives and negatives for each, such that they're equal.

[Joker86]

Thanks for your support!

Concerning point 4: Hybrids have, similar to cav and archers, the advantage of flexibility, though it's not that big like the pure builds. The problem infantry has is, as we have stated, the game mode, where killing is the goal, and both cavalry and archers are flexible enough to make killing reaching them in melee really difficult. So basically we can say that being pure melee on foot is UP. What use do you have of your superior melee powers, when you don't get in a situation to use them? Hybrids don't need that buff, because they are hybrids and don't lack flexibility that much.

[Cup1d]

if that skill would decrease greatly WPF penalty and a bit movement speed penalty from armour weight - why not? It'd be smth like shield skill, not bad.

No. This skill must make possible to wear armor, nothing more. Bonus from armor itself is huge enough to justify skillpoints sink. 95% of our «heroes» is useless without their full armor loompacks.

[HUtH]

No. This skill must make possible to wear armor, nothing more. Bonus from armor itself is huge enough to justify skillpoints sink. 95% of our «heroes» is useless without their full armor loompacks.

then I can't really see a point for adding that skill, because it'd depend on STR, so it'd only "steal" skill points, so we would have even less guys wearing havey armour and probably more shielders. And I don't like shielders.