EU1 These Days.

[Captain_Kirk]

The problem with this is that you cannot nerf teamplay and nerfing archer stats does not solve the problem and is unfair on the individual acrhers.

Agree

Archery might aswell be removed from the game rather then getting nerfed.

[Joseph Porta]

Best fun ever

[Joseph Porta]

Ranged is powerful because so long as there people alive on your team then you are automatically team playing no matter what.

2 melee players 30 yards apart can't do anything to help each other.
2 cav 30 yards apart can at least offer a threat to someone attacking one of them
2 archer 30 yards apart are already 100% team playing as anybody attacking one archer has to constantly look over their shoulder for the other archer.
1 archer and 1 anything else 30 yards apart isn't much different from 2 archers because the archer will kite until help can arrive.

The problem with this is that you cannot nerf teamplay and nerfing archer stats does not solve the problem and is unfair on the individual acrhers.

The answer (and this is coming from an archer) is to limit ammunition and then buff archers a bit so they can have some melee capability.  Make ammo 2 slots, make high tier bows 1 slot and low tier bows 0 slots.  If I only have 24 arrows max then I will either fire slower and make sure each shot counts or I will invest in melee, fire all my arrows and then get stuck in.  Either way it nerfs archer impact without nerfing archers

buff damage nerf accuracy, archery is like a laser guided Weapon system anno 4127
Allthough it would kill the fun of playing one, its practicly the same as removing it.
Archery Is just not balanceable, i think.

[duurrr]

buff damage nerf accuracy, archery is like a laser guided Weapon system anno 4127
Allthough it would kill the fun of playing one, its practicly the same as removing it.
Archery Is just not balanceable, i think.

thats a fucking genius idea bro, lets just make the game a complete RNG, parry now has a chance to fail and arrows shall 1 shot everything if aimed with full reticule

[Piok]

Nerfing accuracy is good idea. Buffing already ridiculous damage of fully loomed archers is most  likely stupid.
Firstly there must be some kind of balance between loomed and not loomed archers. I think that bonus ammo on arrows or bolts is enough for loom so why to give additional damage.
To compensate accuracy nerf should be applied to crossbows to not become omnipotent snipe device. Force and magnet field on shields should be removed to decrease pressure on shieldless infantry, shielders should be valid target choice for ranged. With accuracy nerf ranged will be forced to go closer to aim on unprotected body part and risk a lot. To compensate for shielder crouching should be invented to increase body coverage on smaller shield and to increase teamplay value of shielders.

I also notice change in behavior of shielders with new scoring system. When I hit someone with my bardiche "friendly" shielder jumps in, often negating any chance to repeat attack on my target with chaotic movement. I know it is old tactic to "borrow" kill performed not only by shielders but now a days its like some kind of plague.

[Paul]

Nerfing accuracy is good idea. Buffing already ridiculous damage of fully loomed archers is most  likely stupid.
Firstly there must be some kind of balance between loomed and not loomed archers. I think that bonus ammo on arrows or bolts is enough for loom so why to give additional damage.
To compensate accuracy nerf should be applied to crossbows to not become omnipotent snipe device. Force and magnet field on shields should be removed to decrease pressure on shieldless infantry, shielders should be valid target choice for ranged. With accuracy nerf ranged will be forced to go closer to aim on unprotected body part and risk a lot. To compensate for shielder crouching should be invented to increase body coverage on smaller shield and to increase teamplay value of shielders.

I also notice change in behavior of shielders with new scoring system. When I hit someone with my bardiche "friendly" shielder jumps in, often negating any chance to repeat attack on my target with chaotic movement. I know it is old tactic to "borrow" kill performed not only by shielders but now a days its like some kind of plague.

Nerf ranged and shielders, 2h/pole is fine.

Sincerely, a (Long?) Bardiche user

[Grumpy_Nic]

In order to nerf archers, Arbalest needs back its old power. The reason I played arbalest for many generations is archers. I oneshotted quite some of them, especially the roofmonkeys. But now I need at least 2 shots per archer (or one headshot) which takes away the "sniper" element from the arbalest completely which is needed because of the long reload times. Once an archer becomes aware of you there are not many chances you can reload again, depending on map.
So buff my mw arbalest and my mw steel bolts and I will shoot archers again 

[Paul]

If find arba way more powerful than the bow at the moment to be honest - both when playing ranged myself or when being at the receiving end.

[Grumpy_Nic]

If find arba way more powerful than the bow at the moment to be honest - both when playing ranged myself or when being at the receiving end.

If you compare 1 shot from arba to 1 shot from bow, yes. Reloading..? Bow wins. Mobility...? Bow wins. Upkeep...? Both are high.

[Piok]

Nerf ranged and shielders, 2h/pole is fine.

Sincerely, a (Long?) Bardiche user

2H and poles are not fine.
2h cause of lolstab and too friendly animation which allows them not to bounce of on terrible aimed swings.
Pole arms cause longspers and pikes and lances. Lonspears and pikes should be buffed in speed but nerfed in terms of damage that way they will bounce of more often on point blank thrusts and become more uncontrollable in term of their unballance. Dirty trick like thrust through teammate will be much more difficult cause of speed. Heavy lance and lance speed should be buffed too cause their slowness is actually bonus. Thrust of HL and lance is too controllable (almost homing in case of HL) and damage bonus from horse speed is ridiculous comparing to light lance (not comparing 1h from horse cause their damage is from fairy tale about knight slaying dragon with his sword). Light lance should be more expansive its not so good on horse but is excellent foot weapon for its price.

Now crushtrought weaps. Everyone must agree thet 2H are better then poles. My dislike to them is almost same as to overbuffet archers. I like some heroes saying come to siege there are almost no archers. And for what? To be crushed to dead by them. If you are lucky you can block overhead if you are crushed trough block and still standing you are lucky otherwise you are dead.

[[ptx]]

(click to show/hide)

2H and poles are not fine.
2h cause of lolstab and too friendly animation which allows them not to bounce of on terrible aimed swings.
Pole arms cause longspers and pikes and lances. Lonspears and pikes should be buffed in speed but nerfed in terms of damage that way they will bounce of more often on point blank thrusts and become more uncontrollable in term of their unballance. Dirty trick like thrust through teammate will be much more difficult cause of speed. Heavy lance and lance speed should be buffed too cause their slowness is actually bonus. Thrust of HL and lance is too controllable (almost homing in case of HL) and damage bonus from horse speed is ridiculous comparing to light lance (not comparing 1h from horse cause their damage is from fairy tale about knight slaying dragon with his sword). Light lance should be more expansive its not so good on horse but is excellent foot weapon for its price.

Now crushtrought weaps. Everyone must agree thet 2H are better then poles. My dislike to them is almost same as to overbuffet archers. I like some heroes saying come to siege there are almost no archers. And for what? To be crushed to dead by them. If you are lucky you can block overhead if you are crushed trough block and still standing you are lucky otherwise you are dead.

Gave me lulz. Well done.

[Paul]

If you compare 1 shot from arba to 1 shot from bow, yes. Reloading..? Bow wins. Mobility...? Bow wins. Upkeep...? Both are high.

There is so much more between it. The ability to hold the closed reticule for a long time, the far better awareness due reloading, the higher shot speed...

I know, a skilled archer can compensate all that to a certain degree, even more when fully loomed. But the average player is more dangerous with an arba than with any bow.

[Grumpy_Nic]

There is so much more between it. The ability to hold the closed reticule for a long time, the far better awareness due reloading, the higher shot speed...

I know, a skilled archer can compensate all that to a certain degree, even more when fully loomed. But the average player is more dangerous with an arba than with any bow.

You are right with the reticule and the awareness. But you've forgotten the godlike archer ability of kiting which is impossible with arba.

[Captain_Kirk]

You are right with the reticule and the awareness. But you've forgotten the godlike archer ability of kiting which is impossible with arba.

But you can still be fairly capable in melee if you use an arba. Where as the archer has to spend all their points on archery to not be absolutely crap.

[Gurnisson]

But you can still be fairly capable in melee if you use an arba. Where as the archer has to spend all their points on archery to not be absolutely crap.

Good joke. Just people wants to min-max and sacrifice the ability to do damage in melee to be able to kite better and have the bow be more powerful. Both 18/21 and 18/18 works as a hybrid and the mace is a great sidearm. I see why though, the ranged damage will be greater and there's no real downside to kiting. Crossbowmen can't really do it because they have to stand still to reload.

Anyway, I do think crossbowmen have their pros but that the archers are more decisive in a battle because they're able to land a lot more shots. A bad ranged player is more dangerous with an arbalest, a good one is far more dangerous with a rus/horn bow.