EU1 These Days.

[Tibe]

Hack & slay means completely different stuff. Teeth pretty much rounded it up. You are complete crap if you just consentrate on duel. In battle you have to be full aware while also trying to block, dodge arrows and cav. Melee is really the only thang that kept us playin.

Cav with lance is just pokey pokey and backstabbing less aware players, not particularly hard. Just seriuslly expensive class.

Archery is just endless shooting. Personaly I hate archers due to them using dirty tactics. Getting shot in the face during a fight is fine by me. But when last players of the round are some shitbag archers who just jump far away from melee fighters and pointblankshoot is what really draws me away from the game completely. If it was up to me id make those damn bows wieght atleast 80.

[Thomek]

It's this kind of attitude that sickens me. Developers who aren't good at the game and out of touch with the community who refuse to be corrected.

A hard head makes for a soft ass.

FYI Paul is very very good at the game. Probably one of the best, if not the best.. Especially dueling.

He's also very stubborn.

In my opinion we are discussing this from the wrong perspective.

We should have an opinion of what gives the most fun to the most of players. Then we will have a good game balance.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Pretty much this. Archery is the most challenging class cRPG has to offer. Being a Kuyak-Greatsword hero isn't hard, same as abusing speedbonus as agi-whored swashbuckler (without the buckler).just point and right- or leftclick as you please, then hit "S". Chambering isn't that hard either as you make it out to be. I taught someone to chamber in less than an hour, and his playtime in cRPG was about 3 hours beforehand.

Respectfully disagree sir, ever tried stone thrower? That shit is hard.

[Grumbs]

FYI Paul is very very good at the game. Probably one of the best, if not the best.. Especially dueling.

He's also very stubborn.

I think people forget just whats involved with melee in this game, simply because they played so long and are so good at it. when you're personally very good at it yourself you miss what most players are going through as they play. It becomes second nature. Simply stringing some manual blocks together takes more skill than firing a bow and sometimes hitting stuff, imo ofc

[Babelfish]

Developers who aren't good at the game

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[Lansamur]

Respectfully disagree sir, ever tried stone thrower? That shit is hard.

Yup. 10 PT Catapulteer at your command!

[karasu]

* karasu points at his signature.

[Teeth]

(click to show/hide)

Pretty much this. Archery is the most challenging class cRPG has to offer. Being a Kuyak-Greatsword hero isn't hard, same as abusing speedbonus as agi-whored swashbuckler (without the buckler).just point and right- or leftclick as you please, then hit "S". Chambering isn't that hard either as you make it out to be. I taught someone to chamber in less than an hour, and his playtime in cRPG was about 3 hours beforehand.

Teeth, you're favoring one class, which you are just specialising in, and completely leave out the notion that archers always need to carry sidearms for melee. Cav needs sidearms, cause Lances aren't all that great in closerange melee on the ground when their horse is dead. Please, next time you're going to start melee-propaganda again, at least try to think beforehand of your arguments. Hybrids will always be weaker in comparison to specialised and making the most out of one single-skill builders. Thus, it is actually a lot more challenging and skill-reliant to play 2 classes at once and still excelling at them, managing to actually top a scoreboard or 2.

Additionally, I guess the actual numbers of ranged players are still about even to earlier times. I certainly haven't felt a difference to before. cRPG-playerbase will ALWAYS whine about ranged, archers especially, cause they never bother to actually think about suitably countering them, either with a shield or by doding them.

PS: Ad1no, do you know Paul? I guess not. One of the best 1h-ers ingame (without shield, mind you), and him probably also having played pretty much every class as an Item-balancer. You just don't know, cause he uses unknown alts.

PPS: Renegat: Really? Archery not nerfed? That has to be... the first patch since the last 20 that it has not been nerfed in any way. Get real.

I like the new score system, as it actually shows who is a teamplayer, and who is just a killstealing bundle of sticks intent on just getting the last hit for his e-peen.

Paul uses a shield.

Again, I am not talking about the strength of archery or cav, I am just talking about the melee combat being the best gameplay I've ever played and the cav and ranged gameplay not quite being able to compare. That is my opinion, but I think it's the melee combat that ultimately made this game last for most of us for such a long time. That is all. I am well aware that topping the board is not that hard as melee, actually as a swashbuckler it's somewhat challenging.

Chambering isn't that hard either as you make it out to be.

I can count the people that regularly chamber on two hands, and thats on duel.

Archery has a different skill curve then melee. You reach near the top of your potential skill level as an archer in like ten hours. It's the true mastering of the class thats going to take you hundreds of hours. With melee you can consistently improve on so much different aspects, the skill curve is more gradual, but true mastery is never reached at all.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

It's this kind of attitude that sickens me. Developers who aren't good at the game and out of touch with the community who refuse to be corrected.

A hard head makes for a soft ass.

(click to show/hide)

First of all Paul is like the most playing dev out there, he plays about as much as a normal person, he's one of the great melee players out there, and while Paul in my respected and acknowledged opinion he is a bit of an asshole your reply is just complete bs, Paul states that going around completely ignorant talking 'bout how what you're doing is the hardest thing ever is sickening, you reply stating he refuse to be corrected, and while chadz and CMP barely ever play they still play enough to somewhat understand how the game works, it doesn't take playing 24/7 to know how the game works, and it doesn't take being an elitist melee prick to know how to balance the game, in fact, I'd say an elitist melee prick would balance the game worse than they would.
'sides, saying Paul refuse to be corrected at that point is fucking stupid, it'd be as if you said 2+2=4 and I said it was 5 and if you got a problem you just refuse to be corrected and got a hard head 'n' shit, the fuck?

As long as what you're discussion is all based on opinion, with no real evidence to support either claim then it's all about belief, there is no fact, there is no right, there can be no correction.

EDIT: The spoiler contains a complete incoherent rant caused by me being frustrated by the idiotic elitism of Ad1no, outside the spoiler the remaining part of my post still stands.

[XyNox]

Nothing has changed much since the last great archery discussions I see ...

Thinking that archery is about "point and click" is the very reason for it to be viable in the first place, as this statement only reveals the lack of knowledge and insight about the class to counter it.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Thinking that archery is about "point and click" is the very reason for it to be viable in the first place, as this statement only reveals the lack of knowledge and insight about the class to counter it.

Yeah, archery is also W key for an hour then point and click again. 
Seriously though, archery is far more difficult than melee, while it may not be as unique then it's still more difficult and just 'cuss you consider melee more fun to play doesn't mean archery needs to be pushed out of the way 'n' shit and I guess I'm wrong in my belief that the mod would be more fun for everyone if kiting was removed, I'll always believe no spots on battle maps should be 100% unreachable for cav and still be reachable for regular players, but this is purely due to believing that nothing should 100% counter something else and fuck, I just don't know... I don't like not being able to fight anything I guess, that's how I think all meleers would feel about kiting, but eh...
...fuck?

[Bonze]

For me melee is easy mode on EU1. Always top section of scoreboard, low ranged pressure even with many archers around, biggest impact on round outcome. Actually playing an archer and doing well is challenging - doing it as melee, either cav or on foot is not.

Out of touch with reality.

That's why we had every week 100.000.000.000 threads about ranged ..since 2 years ..

[Bonze]

Nothing has changed much since the last great archery discussions 2010 I see ...

Thinking that archery is about "point and click" is the very reason for it to be viable in the first place, as this statement only reveals the lack of knowledge and insight about the class to counter it.

 

[Cyclopsided]

What?

You can say lots of things about the different classes.
As someone who plays them all, is a pretty good melee duelist, and my main is currently an archer for nearly three months...

Archery is lots of things, but it isn't hard. You can hype it up all you want, but it really is just point and click and easy kills. Melee combat is soo much harder and more intricate -- However with that said, to get kills you only have to be better than who you are going AGAINST to get kills. So since most people aren't good, you'll get tons of kills easily, but still not as easily as archery.

And cav picks all their battles due to maneuver and speed, so a smart player can get 20-1 easier on cav, than that same player could as archer or melee. With the new valour system, smart cav have an advantage due to the ability to rack up tons of points by picking fights and dishing out damage safely.

(click to show/hide)

fucking rohypnol I swear, stop it, you always have valour under this system.

But cav aren't really that OP either. A single slip up in attention will get you dehorsed and killed. It is simply a Different skill-set.



The game is balanced right now. The only issue is there has been a shift in the METAGAME. There are more archers and cav now, which means we need more shielders, hoplites, etc. it'll balance itself out back to a different % of player base being different things.
This is not an issue with balance. This is an issue of What do YOU want to see the battle be? Be it.

[Renegat]

PPS: Renegat: Really? Archery not nerfed? That has to be... the first patch since the last 20 that it has not been nerfed in any way. Get real.

lol yes, they have been so much nerfed that their number increased (or at least remains stable) ... Stop repeating ranged propaganda