What has cRPG come to?

[Vex.]

crpg is just a block fest atm, this slow gameplay means that killing one person in a duel or whatever takes 2-3 minutes... Meh boring

[dodnet]

I play a pure polearm build since a few gens already (Long Spear or Light Lance), always without shield. Last gen was the first gen I put some points into shield skill on that build. Nuff said.

[SixThumbs]

After 12 pages I'm not sure what the original argument was and it really doesn't look like it reached any sort of consensus.

All I can say is, "yes, let's go back to that short-lived ranged nerf where 15 archers would have to be shooting one person simultaneously to kill them".

Huseby, you're also part of the ride around back of the enemy formation and pick off the occupied style of cav, lance horses then ride off, engage the minimal risk, high reward situations. The whiners may be annoying but you're basically whining about them whining while you picked one of the path of least resistance classes.

[Gurnisson]

crpg is just a block fest atm, this slow gameplay means that killing one person in a duel or whatever takes 2-3 minutes... Meh boring

Yes, 39/3 builds should be fast.

[korppis]

Yes, 39/3 builds should be fast.

Indeed, and especially with such a fast weapon as great maul.

[CrazyCracka420]

After 12 pages I'm not sure what the original argument was and it really doesn't look like it reached any sort of consensus.

All I can say is, "yes, let's go back to that short-lived ranged nerf where 15 archers would have to be shooting one person simultaneously to kill them".

Huseby, you're also part of the ride around back of the enemy formation and pick off the occupied style of cav, lance horses then ride off, engage the minimal risk, high reward situations. The whiners may be annoying but you're basically whining about them whining while you picked one of the path of least resistance classes.

I'm just fine getting dehorsed and running around with our infantry horde as well.  That is how lancer cav is most effective.  Picking off stragglers until the two infantry hordes collide and then flanking through enemy lines.  As the round progresses I start taking more risks depending on if we're winning or losing.  I always try to take out the highest priority with the least amount of risk to me as possible (ideally).  But I will take more risks on higher targets if I feel we're losing the round.

Obviously me being 3 or 4 times as fast as most infantry has advantages...every class and play style has advantages and disadvantages.  Smart people take will try to exploit enemy weaknesses, while trying to use your own strengths.  That's all I'm suggesting for infantry.  Instead of complaining, use your strengths to your advantage.   

The way people are whining about archers (and to a lesser extent, cavalry) would be like me riding head first into the enemy horde right after they spawned, and then complaining about pikemen when I die 4 out of 5 times.  Sometimes players need to take responsibility for their own play style.  I'm sorry if you want to be the 2h hero, but you are going to be weak to cavalry and archers if they get you in open terrain without any teammates to help you.

I fail to see what the problem is.  Don't be a straggler and I can't kill you.  Don't charge into a group of archers if you don't have protection.   How is that my fault or the archers fault for taking advantage of retarded people?  Buff retards, don't nerf archers or cav.

[Crazyi]

I caught this thread late so I'll catch up on the 12 pages soon, but I have to agree about the ranged part. I am infantry, and last night I played for 4 hours and didn't get in a single good melee fight. I got shot constantly by their team and my team while in melee or approach, and its just getting old. Literally 25%-50% of the teams each game were some form of ranged.

Cav doesn't bother me at all but I don't think they should be blocking with anything but a shield from horseback.

[Corsair831]

lol, sure, it's all about players not adapting to the game.. Of course it is, but there is a big BUT. (T?)

Adapting to the current balance is simply boring. It's to go cav, archer or shielder yourself.

* I don't want to take away 4 directional blocking by being a shielder.
* I don't want to ride around and lance people in the back. (It makes me feel dirty)
* And I for sure don't want to run and shoot. There actually exist others and better games for that. (Where most people shoot back even!)

This is the only game I ever played who have given me this much adrenaline. I don't get it from other classes. That's my addiction.

Lame, game reducing classes has won over what is truly unique about our combat system. End of story.

Let me whine about whiners complaining about whiners, c-RPG would have developed into a truly archer and cav heaven by now if it weren't for us whiners.

as opposed to what it is now where every noob with a greatsword and 50 body armour can spam for positive kdr ?

2 hander has a purpose, but that purpose is in a mass melee, after using their shield to get too mass melee. Taking no shield whatsoever and then crying that ranged kills you ... are you serious dude ?

[Crazyi]

So in the time I got caught up on this thread I played a map and died 5x. 40 people on the battle server. Every single round I got shot at least twice. One round I was staggered by an xbow and couched because I couldn't move. 3 rounds I died to ranged. 1 round I died from a melee blow after finally reaching a fight. Hurray ranged. If I can even manage to reach melee, I still get shot by their team AND my team and the stagger ends up killing me.

I see people say "take a shield herp a derp". Well while holding block to approach an archer they can EASILY outrun me. With 6 ath they can already outrun me hands down, and if I used a shield to get close and then put it on my back they could do it even easier. Building pure shielder is boring as hell in melee, and also half the problem is your own team firing into melee constantly which it won't matter what build you are in that case. I honestly do like the map rotations but 90% have a hill, roof, wall, or fence that allow archers to just stand and fire instead of cav being their counter.


Anyways I've been around long enough to see the game cycle through classes but I don't think the archery has ever been this plentiful. Need to go back to only longbows have pierce not the arrow itself. I think I'm gonna try this siege thing out like others have suggested because this is just not fun in my opinion.

[Gurnisson]

The arrow stagger is bullshit anyway. Stun is fine, stagger is not.

[Joker86]

as opposed to what it is now where every noob with a greatsword and 50 body armour can spam for positive kdr ?

2 hander has a purpose, but that purpose is in a mass melee, after using their shield to get too mass melee. Taking no shield whatsoever and then crying that ranged kills you ... are you serious dude ?

Suggesting to change the equipment can never be an argument. If we follow your philosophy, all infantry should exclusively be hoplites (shield vs. ranged, spear vs. cav), and if they are not, it's their fault they suck.

The sheer existance of a counter measure against something doesn't mean you can actually expect everyone to follow it.

There is no doubt that there is an exorbitantly high amount of ranged and cavalry players on the servers, and there is also no doubt that the core feature, the most special and unique part of cRPG and Warband in general is the melee system, but both classes, ranged and cav, don't really take advantage of that feature. That's why in my eyes they should always play a side role at the best, it's still a melee game. (Backstabbing cav is no melee).

So the OP is perfectly right that there should be done something against it. I am against any nerfs for cav and archers, but I am for a heavy buff for infantry (although the buff should affect two handed players the least, IMHO).

The only thing I would like to see is people stopping to suggest other people to change their equipment, because this is in no way to be expected. No, you can NOT expect people to bring a shield next to their 2hd weapon, if they want to rely on speed, or if they are already close to their upkeep limit. Of course, 2 handed players should be more vulnerable to enemy fire than players with shield, but on the other hand the game has to be still playable for them. Which is questionable, sometimes.

[Bryggan]

Nerf nerfs!

Anyone who automatically suggests a nerf to deal with problems should be perma-banned.  The OP was complaining about the amount of archers/cav, not that they were OP.  Unless by OP you mean Over Populated.  I read the entire thread and I think I was the only one who suggested anything other than a nerf.

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Would it be possible to make ingame gold dependent on class?  Sort of make it a supply/demand thing.  If we were to say that 20% cav, 20% range and 60% infantry was the perfect mix, if there was a game with that mix everyone would get 100% gold per round.  But if it were 35% cav,  25% range and 40% range, cav would get paid 57% gold, range would get 80% and infantry would get paid 150% gold.

That way if a class is over represented, people could switch to alts to make better money and it would keep the game balanced.

For that I only got one comment.  Perhaps not the greatest idea, but at least I tried.

As soon as people see someone complain about a class, they automatically re-type all their complaints and calls for nerfs (which I'm sure they copy and paste, because it's always the same crap in every thread) and bury anything new that is said.  Most people don't read the entire thread, for either of two reasons- A) it's all the same shit as they read before, and not worth scanning through it all to find a new idea, or B) They don't care what anyone else says and just want to post their nerf this nerf that post.

So it would ultra-uber cool if people got a little creative and thought outside the nerf box.

P.S. Kind of off topic:

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... it even easier. Building pure shielder is boring as hell in melee, and also half the...

Why is everyone hating the shielder?  If you just rely on your shield for defense, yeah, I guess so, but as anyone who can't manually block knows, once your shield is toast so are you.  So you gotta use footwork as much as possible, timing your strikes perfectly (you quickly learn the ranges of most weapons).  Plus you gotta hit twice as many times to get the kill (especially if you're a hybrid like me).  Not to boast, but I was getting pretty good at that until I switched ISPs and now get 160 ping on a good day (getting that fixed soon of course).

[Adamar]

No Joker, we all have to make sacrifices for efficiency. As an archer I decided to bring medium armor along, so I wouldn't die with 1 hit of everything, at the expense of accuracy. Why shouldn't other builds adapt to the game as well? Inf seems spoiled since the solutions to their problems(shields, evasion, teamplay) are there, they just wont use them.

[Macropus]

There is no doubt that there is an exorbitantly high amount of ranged and cavalry players on the servers, and there is also no doubt that the core feature, the most special and unique part of cRPG and Warband in general is the melee system, but both classes, ranged and cav, don't really take advantage of that feature. That's why in my eyes they should always play a side role at the best, it's still a melee game. (Backstabbing cav is no melee).

This game is not all about melee.
I played melee builds for few gens till now and I haven't notice any problems with cav or ranged. The fact that there're many of them doesn't mean they are OP.
Everybody's saying any playstyle except his playstyle is gay, that sounds so retarded.

[Bryggan]

I weep with shame every time an arrow hits my shield.  Unless of course, I'm protecting the 2-handers behind me in an advance.  Ha ha, JK!  I've never had a 2-hander stay behind me in an advance