Author Topic: Proximity based scoring should not be used.  (Read 7152 times)

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Offline chadz

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2012, 05:43:25 pm »
+3
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.

Also, XP barn and the like will obviously not work anymore - if everyone has a higher score, no one gains more because of that, because it's all relative.

Offline Toodles

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2012, 05:46:45 pm »
0
I'm not against the proximity system, I'm against it being the sole generator of gold and XP because it certainly has faults.

It does, and it won't - from what I've read (but can't be bothered to check up) the two will work in conjunction, which seems a pretty decent compromise to me.

Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2012, 05:47:34 pm »
0
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.

Also, XP barn and the like will obviously not work anymore - if everyone has a higher score, no one gains more because of that, because it's all relative.
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Offline dodnet

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2012, 05:56:53 pm »
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Finally some word from the mighty donkey...  8-)
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline Elindor

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2012, 06:00:06 pm »
0
If multi in new system is based partially off result of round (winning or losing) and partially off performance, I think that will be better overall for most people. 
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Offline Swaggart

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2012, 06:05:41 pm »
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I understand there's no perfect solution. As someone who's mainly infantry with an xbow alt that I use mainly on siege, it wouldn't affect me all that much. I'm just thinking of those people who's builds are designed around not being in the thick of melee, like assassins and snipers.

Offline San

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2012, 06:08:53 pm »
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The one thing I am confused about is how to reward defensive play. Shield walls, protecting archers with a pike, etc. can all be very useful to the team, and the only thing I can think of is proximity-based points near teammates who are gaining points. I think protecting those who are contributing well to a team is also contribution. This can even mean a 2h standing there in case other melee arrive.

I think one should receive more points when actually killing someone. People typically play much more defensively when they are low on health. There were times when I was 2-2 and 120 points, and 14-1 and ~106.

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2012, 06:14:56 pm »
0
You did play old cRPG but it took you 6 months to register on forums. Yeah right...
Well, it can happen. I can only speak for myself, but I played the earliest versions of cRPG but didn't register until much later (as the early cRPG didn't have the competitive atmosphere that Native had back then, being heavily grind based and with a largely inexperienced playerbase a few Native vets aside).

Offline Kafein

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2012, 06:20:04 pm »
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The competitive atmosphere was there from the start, it's one of the things that drew me in, and I'm guessing at least some other people as well. People have a tendency to put on role-colored glasses, it could just be that the game was still fresh in your eyes at that time, and the community smaller.

I think I played the mod for about 4 or 5 months with the proximity system so I probably had the time to witness all it could offer, even past the "new is great" feeling. The community was smaller too and that clearly helped making it friendlier, but still. It seems to me people were playing together rather than against each other, or at least more than now. And the mod itself evolved in that direction.

With most of the difference in character levels that existed gone, now the only possible victory is killing/winning. The peasant stage ends very fast, so that people never define survival as a success, rather than killing. Surviving is only satisfactory if it happens to be difficult, which is true when there are level 43 monsters around, and is fun too, just differently. Nowadays, the only success you can ever have is being better than the others at the exact same thing, because everyone plays at the same level.

All this inevitably leads to a more aggressive atmosphere. When as a peasant you are killed by a lvl 43 monster, it's not a big deal, you weren't supposed to survive anyway. It's different when you are always supposed to be more or less able to beat your opponent.

But I've gone through this more than once already so I'll try to stop my rambling here.

Remove the score board, multi and leveling completely and I swear you half to all of the players will quit and never come back. There has to be a kind of competition or its boring. This is not Wendy's Pony Paradise, this is WAR!

Removing leveling completely is a surefire way to scare off everybody not interested in competitive play, because a good part of those people are interested in the grind (it's not me saying this, it's psychology), and there's almost nothing else in cRPG, except of course the "playing with friends" part, which is present in all multiplayer games anyway. After those people are gone, nobody will come in due to the impossible skill curve when you start a competitive game so much later, and those already playing will probably quit too since there will always be a part of them losing too much for it to be acceptable.



Anyway, the idea of a score trying to measure your whole personal contribution and influencing your income sounds very good to me, because it doesn't give any reason to rage on other players.

Offline Elindor

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2012, 06:35:35 pm »
+1
I think one should receive more points when actually killing someone. People typically play much more defensively when they are low on health. There were times when I was 2-2 and 120 points, and 14-1 and ~106.

I agree with this san.

I am glad that the score system avoid 100% focus on the KDR but it seems now that kills are not valued at all in the system.   I feel like when the score system FIRST came out (couple days before it was patched) it seemed to be taking kills into account but offsetting those results with some other factors, but scoreboard still mostly represented most kills at top and least kills at bottom.  Now it has no such correlation as far as I can tell.  Top of team might be someone that is 1-1 with 56 points, and someone that is 8-3 might be half way down with 12 points. 
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Offline Latrinenkobold

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2012, 07:25:46 pm »
0
I agree with this san.

I am glad that the score system avoid 100% focus on the KDR but it seems now that kills are not valued at all in the system.   I feel like when the score system FIRST came out (couple days before it was patched) it seemed to be taking kills into account but offsetting those results with some other factors, but scoreboard still mostly represented most kills at top and least kills at bottom.  Now it has no such correlation as far as I can tell.  Top of team might be someone that is 1-1 with 56 points, and someone that is 8-3 might be half way down with 12 points.
Nah at the moment top of team wont have any score because it wont be shown if it gets too high :)
Fix this please

Offline Elindor

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2012, 07:39:56 pm »
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Also true...I have to imagine that will be fixed soon though....(crosses fingers)
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Offline Riddaren

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2012, 07:56:22 pm »
+1
Having a proximity reward will increase teamplay, as it makes people fight closer together, while at the same time trying harder not to die.
Patience is a good thing; Eventually, you will get the opportunity to strike an enemy for free, without getting hit.

It results in players taking turns to hit, falling back behind each others and waiting for new opportunities to strike.
This is really a great thing and should not be taken away. However it needs tweaking.

There is no obvious answer to what distance is the most optimal.
However, I feel that the score needs to be at a minimum or some people will just stay close but never help as it woudln't be worth it.

A hit on an enemy or a kill needs to be the main source for getting points.

Offline callahan9119

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2012, 09:38:21 pm »
0
What Lech said is correct, at least in the current version we or I have in mind. Yes, it's not perfect, but there is simply no perfect solution. This at least allows peasants to be somewhat helpful and feel rewarded by trying to help the old ones.


What about support characters like archers, throwers, horse archers etc who will be left out of the whole proximity aspect of scoring?
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Offline oprah_winfrey

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Re: Proximity based scoring should not be used.
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2012, 09:47:49 pm »
0
What about support characters like archers, throwers, horse archers etc who will be left out of the whole proximity aspect of scoring?

They may not get many points in proximity, but they make up for it because their range is much longer then a sword/polearm.