AGI sucks.

[Whalen207]

"AGI? What's that?" -Any experienced player
tl;dr - You can either be a track runner or a walking tank.

Strength Advantages:
- Using superior weapons / armor
- Essential skills (Powerstrike - For Melee, Powerdraw - For Archers)
- Modifier for blocking (vs. crushthrough)
- Bonus to base attack
- Modifier for crushthrough
- Can pierce heavier armor
- Health increase (w/ Ironflesh)
- Small WPF boost every skill up

Agility Advantages:
- Slight bonus to melee attack speed
- Faster strafing (w/ Athletics)
- Essential skill (Riding - For Horsemen)

As is made obvious here, AGI is at a serious disadvantage.
You need STR to get weapons that even allow you to function normally as a player. It's an essential skill. AGI however, is not an essential skill. It is just barely needed for horsemen (2 riding or more) and "recommended" because weapon master requires it. As horsemen become more and more rare due to the buffing of pike-related polearms and newly-introduced upkeep, the former "advantage" will diminish. A player can have a character with 30+ strength and function normally, if not better in melee (and ranged). However a player with minimal strength and maximum agility would find it hard to pierce the thinnest of armors and would be likely clad in paper-mache plate.

I just took a survey on the NA server as the round started. Although I doubt everyone that applied would have responded as some did, I tallied up a total of four characters (including mine) that had 6+ more Agility than Strength. Compared to the other 55 players on the server this is an insignificant amount.

So, it's not a question that AGI needs a small buff, it's the question of what to buff. I recommend a small bonus to ranged attacked speed (currently only choice of bow and wpf increased ranged speed) and a larger bonus to melee speed (but not significantly so). I would also appreciate it if AGI gave you WPF points to spend or at least had a similiar effect to single-player's weapon master skill (lowering cost of WPF).

Taking suggestions.
 

[Farrok]

maybe for each point in agi give 10 wpf...

[kongxinga]

According to WaltF4's findings, agil no longer gives any passive bonuses, so there are no increases in weapon speed at all apart from the speed increase with wpf. And remember, some important agil skills were also nerfed. chadz is a famous horse hater, so people are not surprised with the various riding nerfs, but agility apparently got a nerf, and WM got indirectly nerfed with the higher costs to improve skills.

In short, chadz should have been a mule not a donkey for less horse hate, and is also an agility hater.

[EponiCo]

I have to disagree with a few points here.

- Using superior weapons / armor
You need str for weapons/armor but hardly ever need str focused build to use them

- Essential skills (Powerstrike - For Melee, Powerdraw - For Archers)
- Bonus to base attack
- Can pierce heavier armor
All the same, obviously true and very strong though

- Modifier for crushthrough
- Modifier for blocking (vs. crushthrough)
Broken atm, will be fixed soon hopefully

- Small WPF boost every skill up
Where did you get that from? If that's in just take it out

- Slight bonus to melee attack speed
Myth?

Some points for agi are missing:
-Shield
-Flanking
-Hybrids (for pure you can go more PS, for hybrid more WM)

As horsemen become more and more rare due to the buffing of pike-related polearms and newly-introduced upkeep, the former "advantage" will diminish.

If horsemen become rare there is more room for agi based hit and run tactics, that a str build is helpless against. But I don't see that happen actually.

I just took a survey on the NA server as the round started. Although I doubt everyone that applied would have responded as some did, I tallied up a total of four characters (including mine) that had 6+ more Agility than Strength. Compared to the other 55 players on the server this is an insignificant amount.

Make real survey, like a poll here. Asking in a small round is obviously flawed. chadz can just look in the database though if we wants.

I have to say I personally have no problem playing an agi based build as it is now, there's a couple of obviously agi players who do fairly well also. Only thing that I dislike is how you seem to lose all advantage of athletics when you wear medium armor. As for extreme builds, imo they should be pretty gimped in other areas and since agility isn't for damage they should be obviously very bad at damaging. Play steel shield brickwall, bait, archerhunter instead.

[Seawied]

The point is that you need at least some strength. There are numerous builds out there that don't put a point into agility and function quite well.

[MouthnHoof]

- Using superior weapons / armor

With 12 str you can use most weapons and all the armors you'd like to use. Sure it limits you from the plates, but what is the point of going high athletics and wearing plate?

- Modifier for blocking (vs. crushthrough)
- Bonus to base attack
- Modifier for crushthrough
- Can pierce heavier armor
- Small WPF boost every skill up

All 5 are wrong. The pierce armor thing is a result of the PS which is mentioned above it, not a direct result of str.

Yes, going str 3 build is idiotic, while agi 3 is feasible. Even a small investment in str is sufficient to be an effective mosquito. Damage is very high and many people wear light armor so 10 PS is really not a requirement. I see the main advatage of an agi build as the ability to use more than one melee weapon effectively, so I can go 100+ on both 1H and 2H or poles, saving me the need to level several alts in parallel.

[Dravic]

Yeah. Eponico, all you say, is a truth - partially. Because OP doesnt mean that agi at all is useless, but pure agi builds are useless...

I'd suggest two things.

Either more wpf from WM or give about 15wpf from every agi point.

And regulate wpf cap so full agi stacker (lets say 9str 30agi) can get 230wpf, but build with about 18agi same as now - about 160(! while 30 agi build gets 190wpf - WTF?). You have to regulate hybrids, too, so that much of wpf wont let them build as strong chars as now.

+ obviously give us back athletics buff, so we have much higher run speed when we have 10 athletics. Not only manouverability.

[Punisher]

Agility Advantages:
- Slight bonus to melee attack speed

That was removed with the upkeep patch, agility doesn't increase attack speed anymore.

[Fasader]

You forgot to mention that str also increases e-penis size by 3% per point.

[rustyspoon]

Agi builds aren't as good as they used to be, but they are still far from useless. I know from experience that an agi shielder can be an unholy death machine thanks to the magic that is speed bonus.

[Seawied]

Agi builds aren't as good as they used to be, but they are still far from useless. I know from experience that an agi shielder can be an unholy death machine thanks to the magic that is speed bonus.

Problem is: shields are so slow that feinting is highly ineffective. Shield speed should be increased.


@mouthnhoof
I know its nit-picking, but each point in strength does add a very small bonus to damage. You are correct though in saying that the overwhelming benefit comes from PS and not strength itself.

[Diomedes]

Give more wpf per AGI point.  Wpf increases damage and attack speed in most weapons and with enough points it may make AGI builds a more reasonable alternative to STR builds.  It may be best to aim for the balance: STR biased builds can hit hard with heavier/bigger weapons while AGI biased builds can hit faster for moderate damage with lighter/smaller weapons.  If this works well then there'd be workable routes to suit different playstyles with a lot of room for hybridization.  As it stands STR builds have good speed, high damage, and big weapons (length, crushthrough, diversity, etc.) while AGI builds have high shield skill to use with their horses 

[Christo]

Problem is: shields are so slow that feinting is highly ineffective. Shield speed should be increased.

lol.

Ever saw Merc_Varyag playing?
Or Ruconquista_DimaUrban?

[Casimir]

Agility IS for the weak

[_JoG_]

Problem is: shields are so slow that feinting is highly ineffective.

Say this to my 1h+shield char.