WPF Requirements for all weapons?

[Beauchamp]

The numbers look ok, but remember, the whole idea is to keep hybrids from using the top tier gear in a class. The top weapons are meant for the specialists, otherwise, there's no point in it. We're trying to balance hybrids out a little, right? Maybe what ever 5 WM is, when put solely into 1 weapon class would be the minimum for the top tier weapons of each class.

aye or even more...

[EponiCo]

(click to show/hide)

Does anybody else see a problem with this....
5 or 6 PS for a greatsword, 15-18 str for a weapon that already has a str requirement.
130-150 wpf
that's at least wpm3 at lvl 30, higher end is what, WM5? WM6? (15-18 agility)

So you get the added bonus of screwing strength builds, do you want that...

It would certainly screw hybrids that go 120/100 with 5 WM, by lvl 30.

IF you add wpf requirements to every weapon, you ARE gimping lower level characters, making them easier prey for lvl30's, increasing the time they must spend with lesser weapons.

You also eliminate pure throwers/archers/xbows picking up a random weapon when they have to, and the unnofficial game of scavenger.

None of which addresses the problem of too much ranged players. I had already suggested halving stack size, but certainly there is also the danger then of even slower rounds, more hiding waiting for that perfect shot, etc.
Now if that archer/thrower/xbower, with power strike but 1wpf, takes up a slot with his own weapon, why should I be concerned about that - do I prefer he take an extra stack of ammo, then run away alot?

The idea was originally from me (or at least I said it some time ago) but I'm also not sure about if it decreases projectiles.
Though if it isn't pushed to silly levels (139 wpf = WM4 would be ok I guess) I don't think it will hurt strength builds much ... very low agi builds will just have to deal with it that they get worse weapons (but they could still use maul or axe f.i.), like very low str build has to deal with glancing.
But some points
1) Ranged weapons are imo to cheap/effective.
Archer - effectiveness is ok, and hybridizing is a really hard call. Though, over some gens of archer with cheap backup weapon I've made 150k. Ofc, you can do restrictions what you want, but people are gonna spend that money somehow ... if as armored horsearcher or by alternating 1 gen as archer 1 gen as black plated melee, so attractivity to go archer for money reasons stays
Crossbow - effectiveness is also ok imo, maybe heirloomed with full wpf are too good, but you pay only the same as an archer and have to invest not a single point. Far too cheap in opportunity cost.
Throwing - just too strong.
2) Some melee weapons or just to strong for their price
I'm looking at you, Long Hafted Spiked Mace. Other ofc too. Lol at whine about flamberge archer...
So cheap backup weapons which are also very effective exist.

Well, I think throwing and the melee weapons are going to be adressed (and unless that's done making wpf requirements for the high tier weapons is kind of pointless anyway), let's see how it looks then.

Ofc  3) People's Mentality
If you want to play as a melee, play as one.
If you take light armor to afford your horse/crossbow, forget how to take your finger away from the s key when you risk running into a 1 vs 1or camp around instead of supporting your allies in the rush it's your own fault when you get shot. Oh, don't rush high mountains with archers, in the worst case you just have to wait one minute out of their range for the flags to pop and then you win. Using cover and buying shields helps a lot also.
Yep, you are going to get shot or stabbed when you fight also. But think about it, what is worse, dying early in a short round or dying midway in a long round? The longer the round, the better for ranged.

[Vanular]

I like this idea. It's always sad to see a fullplate archer with a flameberg on his back.

[Keshian]

Many weapons already have a strength, powerdraw, or powerthrow requirement which works but could maybe  be a little higher.  The only weapon that could really use  awpf requirement would be xbow because of the glitch that allows dead on accurate shots with 0 wpf.  Maybe 0 wpf for hunting xbow, 25 for light, 50 for normal xbow, 75 for heavy, and 100 wpf for siege xbow.

[Christo]

Many weapons already have a strength, powerdraw, or powerthrow requirement which works but could maybe  be a little higher.  The only weapon that could really use  awpf requirement would be xbow because of the glitch that allows dead on accurate shots with 0 wpf.  Maybe 0 wpf for hunting xbow, 25 for light, 50 for normal xbow, 75 for heavy, and 100 wpf for siege xbow.

Problem is that Hybrids became overpowered.

100 WPF is still nothing for a hybrid build to sacrifice. That's the main problem.

[Were_M_Eye]

So the whole idea is to stop people using xbows?

[kastellan]

So the whole idea is to stop people using xbows?

No, its to stop Melee chars from taking the additional crossbow for some freekills.

[jspook]

I was under the impression it was more about range players (archers) running around with top tier polearms and blades stuffed god knows where, and pulling them out for mele with 1 wpf.

[Ramsay]

Also it will nerf pure str builds as they will lack the wpf requirement for the highest tier weapons while pure agi builds lack the damage output.

So what You are saying is that agi build would not ony be much faster but also deliver about same dmg as a str build?

Next gen 99% pure str players would just make 24str/15agi build and go 148wpf (pure on 30lvl) to use their Masterwork German/Cookies Hoooray for original builds!
I'd rather see all the hybrid/crossbow/junk thrower than 1/2 of people with pure builds (its just boring).

Oh BTW I'm pure 2h and I feel so special in the hybrid world 

[Marshal_Nemesis]

+1 for the Mighty Long Axe

[Kophka]

So what You are saying is that agi build would not ony be much faster but also deliver about same dmg as a str build?

Next gen 99% pure str players would just make 24str/15agi build and go 148wpf (pure on 30lvl) to use their Masterwork German/Cookies Hoooray for original builds!
I'd rather see all the hybrid/crossbow/junk thrower than 1/2 of people with pure builds (its just boring).

Oh BTW I'm pure 2h and I feel so special in the hybrid world 

So what you are saying is that 21/18, 18/18,15/21,15/24, and 18/21 builds would vanish?

Not to mention that some people LOVE playing a hybrid, and are willing to sacrifice the ability to use the absolute best melee weapons to be a hybrid with say... Javelins and a Battle fork? Or a medium Crossbow and a Longsword?

Or, that nobody will play a DEDICATED crossbowman or archer?

Or the fact that some people really don't mind having a mid tier weapon as their top gear, like a studded warclub, Swiss Halberd, Elite Scimitar/shield, or Awlpike?

You can't project your preferences onto the masses and say "this is what they'll do" because you really have no idea. There are people that roleplay the hell out of this game, people that play it casually, and people that min/max to get every advantage they can get. I feel it's worth a shot, and would bring more variety and balance to the game than ever before.

[Berserkadin]

Aslong as I can use my Flamberge with a 30/9 build, otherwise fuck you.

[Brutal]

The reasoning behind the system : It'd be a boost for people that want to specialize in a weapon class, when there is currently no good reason too

Yea no reason except more wpf, more skill point to spend and more money for better armor/weapon. Just look how poorly pure build do on the battlefield and how much hybrid top the scoreboard

also if you get powned by an archer with 0 wpf  changing is weapon won't change anything you will most likely still get owned if he has a somewhat decent low tier weapon.

Although there is some good concept behind the idea (like for xbow )I m against anything that will make everybody more or less the same build

How can a min wpf requirement for every weapon bring more variety ?

For xbow a better and simpler solution would be to have a extremely terrible accuracy at 0wpf (butit seem to be hardcoded)
For throwing just increase time between projectile so that you can rush them

It's always sad to see a fullplate archer with a flameberg on his back.

.
Why ? it's like having a big sign saying "i'm slow as hell and cant aim for shit come and kill me."

[Bobthehero]

Aslong as I can use my Balanced/Masterworkds Long Espada Eslanova with a 30/9 build, otherwise fuck you.

Fix'd

Edit: What about heirloom if suddently someone cant use their heirloom because of the lack of WPF thats going to suck, a lot.

[Kophka]

Fix'd

Edit: What about heirloom if suddently someone cant use their heirloom because of the lack of WPF thats going to suck, a lot.

Well, I think that we can agree that ANY changes are going to disrupt what somebody already has going on. If their heirloom becomes unusable due to a wpf requirement, there is already a trading option planned, or alternatively, they can simply retire, and build a character that fits that weapon.

EDIT : Sorry, I thought I'd address this one too, it has some good points.

Yea no reason except more wpf, more skill point to spend and more money for better armor/weapon. Just look how poorly pure build do on the battlefield and how much hybrid top the scoreboard

also if you get powned by an archer with 0 wpf  changing is weapon won't change anything you will most likely still get owned if he has a somewhat decent low tier weapon.

Although there is some good concept behind the idea (like for xbow )I m against anything that will make everybody more or less the same build

How can a min wpf requirement for every weapon bring more variety ?

For xbow a better and simpler solution would be to have a extremely terrible accuracy at 0wpf (butit seem to be hardcoded)

Maybe in your neck of the woods, specialists do well, but I seem to remember many, many cries of rage and sadness over the number of ranged players on both sides of the crpg world. With a system like this, people that now take an xbow, or throwing sidearm (just because they can) well either A.) Be rewarded more for specializing, or B.) Be limited to the weaker, less effective weapons. On the melee side of it (Archers/Pure wpf xbowers), it's more to bring the whole system into balance. The melee specialists get something (access to the best melee weapons), and the ranged specialists get both access to the best ranged gear, AND less people shooting at them, making them both more effective on the field, and more important for a team to have. The hybrids get to be a little of both, but get no reward beyond the inherent flexibility (at a cost!) of a hybrid build. Cavalry may be the most affected, since they often dual spec in polearms and another melee class, but that's perfectly fine (speaking as a cavalry player myself), since the horse itself is an inherent mobility advantage.

And as to how it can bring variety, I'm not sure what you mean. Right now, we see tons of poleaxes, danish/german Greatswords, Flamberges, and sideswords, and that's pretty much it. I can't remember the last time I saw anything in the lower tiers of weapons being used besides anyone but the greenest new players.