Shields overhaul

[Bjord]

As swashbuckler, I would get shot a lot more but I know how to dodge. I'll be faster without shield and win most melee fights easily.

Do it, it's a lot of fun. Just let me add that every weapon that is longer than yours are going to spam you. You'll have to be ready to block a lot. I've seen you block, and you make some easily avoidable mistakes.

But sure, join me and Teeth.

[Molly]

[...]
But sure, join me and Teeth.

*cough*

[Taser]

I like playing shielder and played it for almost 3 gens now. (On my third atm, almost 30 ) The main issue I have with it is the phase through that happens more often than I'd like. People go through me and I get attacked from behind when they were in front of me a second ago. It doesn't happen everytime I fight someone so its not a very common occurrence but it does happen often enough to be annoying.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

holding a shield up makes you slower then someone who is swinging and backpeddaling.

If you find a logic, please call me

[Konrax]

holding a shield up makes you slower then someone who is swinging and backpeddaling.

If you find a logic, please call me

This makes most 1h weapons be out of range actually, I have to just keep pushing till I can get in range with my Italian sword. Sometimes I can hit them with a right swing depending on how long of a weapon they are attacking me with, but it is also our slowest attack option.

[Phew]

I would just like to see more shield diversity. As it stands, those no reason to take any but a handful of shields.

Truedat. The only shields you see anymore in the hands of people that know what they are doing are:
Knightly Heater/Kite
Elite Cavalry Shield
Heavy Round Shield

Occasionally you see a Huscarl or one of the other kite shields, but the three above are pretty much head and shoulders above the rest. That's because too many shields suffer from one or more of the following drawbacks:
-Armor <16 (causing them to be penetrated by crossbow bolts). You need >20 armor to stop a +3 Steel Bolt fired from a +3 Arbalest.
-Awful speed. 80 speed like on the Huscarl is just too slow for any kind of fast-paced combat
-2 slot. Who would give up the opportunity to carry a ranged/polearm sidearm just so their shield can survive one more axe blow?

[Penitent]

Truedat. The only shields you see anymore in the hands of people that know what they are doing are:
Knightly Heater/Kite
Elite Cavalry Shield
Heavy Round Shield

Actually, the reason you see most people using those 3 shields is because only a handful of people know what they are doing.   ALL shields are viable and have their uses.  Most shallow shielders just go for the fastest ones or the ones they see other people use without really exploring the options available.

-Armor <16 (causing them to be penetrated by crossbow bolts). You need >20 armor to stop a +3 Steel Bolt fired from a +3 Arbalest.
-Awful speed. 80 speed like on the Huscarl is just too slow for any kind of fast-paced combat
-2 slot. Who would give up the opportunity to carry a ranged/polearm sidearm just so their shield can survive one more axe blow?

I've played 6 gens shielder (in a row).  I have used ALL the shields, and tried many of them at +3 loomed.  I have never had a bolt penetrate a shield.  Even the slowest shields (board, huscarl, steel shield) are fast enough for "twitch" blocking.  Yes, even the steel shield!
2 slot shields are the strongest shields.  Some of them can take 2 or 3 more axe shots...but they can take many more sword hits.  However, they are for those who are dedicated shielders because they take that extra slot.  Really, they are the best shields.  If you want to hybrid, you are limited to the 1-slot shields.  If you want to specialize, you have all the options available.

And there you go.  I splilled the beans.  There are some really great shields out there that aren't used often...it was my best kept secret.  Don't tell!

[Mlekce]

Leave my elite cav shield alone you 2h gaysword scum.
If you are gonna nerf something,nerf your shitty sow and german gs.
Nothing wrong with shields,you all 2h have 21/50 builds,and over 60 body armor,and over 40 cut dmg on every weapon so leave shields alone.

[gazda]

gameplay sugestions are just a waste of time, devs already have their opinions and plans on all those things, nothing you say can do much to change it.

Its something like Parliament, bunch of fools with different opinions trying to convince other fools with oposite opinions that their opinion is the right one, when in fact, none of those fools care much about others arguments

[Phew]

I've played 6 gens shielder (in a row).  I have used ALL the shields, and tried many of them at +3 loomed.  I have never had a bolt penetrate a shield.  Even the slowest shields (board, huscarl, steel shield) are fast enough for "twitch" blocking.  Yes, even the steel shield!
2 slot shields are the strongest shields.  Some of them can take 2 or 3 more axe shots...but they can take many more sword hits. 

I've also played 6 consecutive shielder gens, and I've used Brown Lion, Brown Kite, HRS, and ECS all at +3, and an unloomed Huscarl. Bolt penetration is the reason I dropped the Brown Lion, as dedicated x-bowmen shoot through it like it isn't there. Using a +3 HRS now (19 armor), and +3 steel bolts from +3 Arbalests still penetrate my shield every now and then. It's clear as day, bolt sticking out of my chest right behind the raised shield. Dedicated arbalesters are really common on siege, which is all I play, so I get plenty of chances to test this out. Never seen a bolt penetrate the unloomed Huscarl (20 armor).

Shield speed is important if you like to "drop feint", i.e. drop your block to force your opponent to release their held attack, only to block again before it lands. If you don't use this tactic, then I suppose speed is less critical. But all the good greatsworders just hold their attacks against shielders now, so unless you have all day, "drop feinting" is the fastest way to get the fight over with.

If there was a fast, high armor, round, 2-slot shield (think ECS +50 HP), I would use it instead of a crossbow sidearm. Instead, 2-slot is mostly populated with slow shields (bucklers excepted). The heavy kite-type shields have good stats, but poor horizontal coverage in melee. I like how round shields allow you to block two people on either side of you simultaneously, which kite shields can't do.

[Turboflex]

Any shields but the heaviest  2 slot can be shot through at close range by arbalast. After that it becomes pretty variable with distance + crossbow type + shield type/skill.

I used to play with like 5 skill and a +3 huscarl but I found it was overdoing it and now just use 4 skill and a +3 heavy round. It can survive one intense fight with a 2h sword user (and like all shields, will break quickly against a polearm shieldbreaker) and when that's over and if I've won, by that time there's usually plenty of shields on ground I can scavange anyways for a new one.

[Penitent]

Very well, phew.  There are many ways to shield, and maybe I have just gotten lucky by never having my shield shot through.  If that ever happened to me, I'd probably get pissed and change which shields I use.

[Phew]

Garison, I see you on NA siege alot. If you want your shield penetrated by a bolt, just find SoW_Claire_Alford and run at him. He will wait until you are literally touching him, then fire a +3 Steel Bolt into your face from a +3 Arbalest. It will penetrate your shield and kill you. This describes every encounter I've had with this character.

On an unrelated note, I hate how a 5 kg +3 Bar Mace will block stun a 7.5 kg shield on every held attack. And a 6.5 kg +3 Mallet will similarly crushthrough a 7.5 kg shield just about every time. If I'm going to be encumbered by so much shield weight, it would be nice if that weight actually imparted some benefit (block stun and crushthrough resistance).

[rustyspoon]

When shopping for a shield there are a few things you need to consider. This comes from 20 straight gens as a shielder.

Weight: Not such a big deal for movement speed until you get to the REALLY heavy shields. What it is important for is to stop you from getting block stunned. Yes, you can be blocked stun while carrying a shield. With a weight of 6 or less, there's a LOT of people (on NA at least) who will be able to block stun you if they hold their attack. With my 7.5 weight shield, I only get block stunned by str builds using a bar mace who are holding attacks. I even stop the mallet from crushing through some of the time.

Body Armor: Not really a huge deal. The body armor of most shields is pretty similar and your shield skill does more to mitigate damage in my opinion. It's also rare that you have a crossbow user who can penetrate shields anyway. I maybe run into 1 person a month who can penetrate my shield from close range.

Hit Points: Really important. This is what lets you take the hits. Also good if you take a stray axe hit. If a high-armor, low-hp shield takes a stray axe hit, it's going down VERY soon. If a low-armor, high HP one does, you'll get a bit more life out of it. Still, always put away your shield when fighting a shield-breaker.

Speed Rating: Despite what people say, there is a HUGE difference between speed ratings ESPECIALLY when ping differences are considered. If I see someone with a slow shield, I will move around and spam the shit out of them, 'cause I know they won't be able to react fast enough. 100 speed blocks as fast as a manual block. You can't go higher than 100. Anything less is slower than a manual block. Shield skill does increase your shield speed also. So, if you have a 100 speed shield, you're wasting points. Remember, just because your shield is in the "up" position, doesn't mean it's blocking.

Shield Height: Not really a big deal, but kind of is. I'll explain that more on the bottom. For most things though, if you see a ranged guy aiming at your head, move your shield up. If he's aiming at your feet, move your shield down.

Shield Width: Big deal. It's WAY easier to hit around a narrow shield than a wider one. A lot of times when people think that someone hit through their shield, it's because they're using a narrow one (or a slow one). With a narrow shield, you REALLY need to watch your facing. You can get away with more with a wide shield.

Now, here's where shield width and height make a big difference: the forcefield. The forcefield increase is percentage-based. Therefore if you have a smaller width and height, you get MUCH smaller returns on your forcefield size.

When you factor all of the above together, it comes down to the fact that the overall best shields in the game are round ones. They have the best coverage, good speed, good weight and good hp. (Not counting the metal ones, 'cause those are shit in my opinion)

[oprah_winfrey]

One thing that I would like to see changed is when you put the larger shields on your back (huscarl, heavy round) that it doesn't block your view so much. It almost forces you to drop your shield and hope its still there when you need it.