Author Topic: The Broken Lance Project  (Read 2703 times)

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Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 02:06:45 pm »
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Remember Goliath :) but I don't care if I wear a good helmet.

I agree, all weapons should have a risk to break, depending of your wpf, for exemple. Why only shields ??
You could decrease the ratio with a good wpf or a MW weapon.

But first, let's focus on high shocks.

Wierd suggestions you make, my young Padawan...
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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 02:22:38 pm »
+2
Instant kill? Not all players in cRPG are Maximus Decimus Meridius' Son.

If you are going to make lances 1 or 2 uses only, then the impact of the horse charge must be strengthened. Currently horses must use the lance in order to pick off stragglers like CC said. People can easily dodge cav attacks by standing directly infront of the horse, taking the trample rather than being hit by sword or lance with armored opponents taking almost no damage at all.

Or you would have to strengthen the couched lance, make it 1-hit kill no matter what (for if it had enough force to break in a person surely that would kill them) then they would be used against heavily armored and dangerous opponents. But if you just reduce the effectiveness of cavalry's lance without any other changes you shall see a dramatic rise in horse crossbowmen, not less cavalry.

Playing cavalry is expensive, taking a horse means you must choose lesser armors and weapons, or otherwise maintain a x3-4 at all times. If you want to cite "realism" then you should also know that cavalry dominated the battlefield up until the invention of gunpowder and cannon. Horse archers being even more effective and you can see how well that turned out in crpg, nerfed into oblivion because they were realistically annoying and deadly to fight. So please do not make suggestions based on "realism", take it to the realism discussion forum.

Cavalry will always have an edge due to mobility and the ability to choose their fights and running away when it suits them, staying together or carrying a polearm are two very simple  and realistic methods you can use to deal with cavalry.
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Offline Tovi

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2012, 02:25:47 pm »
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Consider this : a steel shield (6 Attribute skill...) can suffer around 5 hits from a big huscarl axe, before exploding.ok.
A wooden staff or a cudgel can suffer infinite hits !

Houston, we have a problem here !
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2012, 02:29:02 pm »
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How could something that is not designed to break, break in multiple spots ?

Everything that breaks is designed that way, interesting, I smell illuminati and a whole lot of conspiracy theories boiling up.

I like this but I think the break chnce shouod be lowered to something like 10-15 %, maybe even less, it's still a game you know but yes! Let there be break chance for lancer, the higher your speed bonus the greater the chance!
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 02:33:21 pm »
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So please do not make suggestions based on "realism", take it to the realism discussion forum.


This. My brain could not make up these words on its own. So I'm quoting.

Offline Tovi

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2012, 02:40:43 pm »
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All realism must go to the trash can ?
Everybody complains about OP cav, and this is a solution.
Apply it just to the best (longest) lances.
So, long lances will be used mainly for knights duels. And then switch to a shorter one or a sword against infantry.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2012, 03:34:55 pm »
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Admins say that changes will not be made based on realism alone (hence realism/trashcan forum section).  However, they DO say they want to add depth to the game. 

Where does this depth come from?  Our asses, or our variously twisted imaginations? Not necessarily.  Real life is deeper than a video game (more detailed, intricate, nuanced....obviously) and it is the obvious place to find inspiration for adding depth to CRPG. 

I think breaking lances would be very cool. 
Staffs and clubs don't break because you can block with them in a way that would lessen the chance of breaking.  Lances, used at a full charge, can not be used in any other way other than that which would risk breaking.  Yes, it's realistic...but its also nuanced and interesting.  Make it a small % chance at first and see how it works.  I bet it would be a lot of fun. :)

The devastating crash of the charge.  The broken lances!  Draw your swords!  Hack and slash!  This would add excitement, variability, and depth to the game...no matter which way you look at it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 04:10:57 pm by Garison »

Offline Vkvkvk

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2012, 03:51:55 pm »
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People can easily dodge cav attacks by standing directly infront of the horse, taking the trample rather than being hit by sword or lance with armored opponents taking almost no damage at all.

Oh fucking please, every self respecting Cavalry has a god damned champion horse with a ridiculous of maneuvrability.

You can do a god damned minute-change in a single second, and if I try to escape the stab/couch by going inside and getting trampled, any good Cavalry that I fight against will just slightly turn and I'll be absolutely fucked anyway.

Offline Tovi

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2012, 05:57:38 pm »
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It's also more noob friendly, because there is less weak infantry chase.
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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2012, 07:55:23 pm »
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You can do a god damned minute-change in a single second, and if I try to escape the stab/couch by going inside and getting trampled, any good Cavalry that I fight against will just slightly turn and I'll be absolutely fucked anyway.

This is only true at slow speeds and with Arabians, and even Arabians can't do that at full speed.

The devastating crash of the charge.  The broken lances!  Draw your swords!  Hack and slash!  This would add excitement, variability, and depth to the game...no matter which way you look at it.

The problem is charges are not devastating, and the plated charger is the worst horse in the game. This would not add excitement, variability, or depth. Players would find new ways to piss you off while on horseback. If you want to add depth or make it more difficult, add actual charges where you press a button and get a speed and charge bonus and maneuverability penalty, then lower the top speeds of the horses. You could probably do this for infantry too.

Napoleonic wars prevents you from blocking with lances, pikes, and other long polearms, you could do the same in cRPG.

Everybody complains about OP cav, but the problem is that cav are not OP, and "everybody" is not being used literally. They are whining because they ran off on their own and got killed with 5 minutes left in the round and have nothing better to do than post about it. Does anyone have a link to the data page that had the best weapons by kills or something? As I recall it was 2H weapons that were the most lethal.

It might be okay if every map had a place you could go to grab a new lance, but then people would want a place for arrows and shields and such as well.

It's also more noob friendly, because there is less weak infantry chase.

It isn't more noob friendly at all, the singlemost effective thing someone can do below level 20 is carry around a spear or other polearm and protect their teammates from horses, even if only by rearing them.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2012, 07:59:40 pm »
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Well I am quite sorry, my good man.  If you don't think getting hit by a couched lance is devastating, I simply do not know what else I can say to you! :)

Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2012, 08:03:45 pm »
+1
Consider this : a steel shield (6 Attribute skill...) can suffer around 5 hits from a big huscarl axe, before exploding.ok.
A wooden staff or a cudgel can suffer infinite hits !

Houston, we have a problem here !

Houston, this guy doesn`t understand a single shit about what BALANCE means.
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Offline Haboe

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2012, 08:13:33 pm »
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How could something that is not designed to break, break in multiple spots ?

Because a lance like that is designed to break? If you land a hit on you enemy and deals pierce damage (thus the lance will be in the enemy's body), and the lance wont break, what do you think ll happen to the guy holding the lance?

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Offline Penitent

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2012, 08:19:07 pm »
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Because a lance like that is designed to break? If you land a hit on you enemy and deals pierce damage (thus the lance will be in the enemy's body), and the lance wont break, what do you think ll happen to the guy holding the lance?

(click to show/hide)

Actually, if you stabbed into someone at full charge and the lance didn't break, this could also happen:

(click to show/hide)

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: The Broken Lance Project
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2012, 08:34:16 pm »
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I think you guys are forgetting something, all the weapons (and all equipment) in the game have a chance of breaking mid-round.  You don't know about it until you get hit with a repair cost at the end of the round.  But if my weapon "breaks" after the first tick, it's not as useful than if it wasn't broken. 

At least that's what I remember reading on the forums (that if your weapon breaks during the round it's less effective until it gets repaired).
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