Siege map: Snowfall

[Peasant_Woman]

After getting tired of playing the native maps again and again I decided to make my own (hopefully of the same quality as the other custom maps). This is my first attempt at a siege map, getting the spawns working properly was infuriating constructive criticism/feedback is welcome.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2732

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Overview

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A- Attacker spawn
D- Defender spawn
G- Gatehouse
L- Ladder
F- Flag
BD- Breakable door
ST- Siege tower

Key locations

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Gatehouse 1 and siege ramp

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Gatehouse 2

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Gatehouse 3 facing the attacker spawn

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Main entrance to flag compound

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Flag compound

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Looking down from the flag wall at the attacker spawn

Version 1.1 changelog;

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Moved attacker spawn nearer Gatehouse 1 and the siege tower
Removed the breakable doors leading through gatehouse 3
Added a fourth ladder next to the breakable doors leading into the flag area
Cleaned up ground textures near gatehouse 3 and the whole way around the moat area
Added barriers to the roof of the keep in the flag area to prevent laddering unreachable archers with direct line of sight to the flag and most of the castle
Discovered gatehouse 1 and 2's windows are wide enough to be jumped through, avoiding the breakable doors completely for a clever attacker

version 2.0 changelog;

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Moved the front wall, gatehouse and moat closer to the flag
Moved flag a little closer to the front wall
Re-added one breakable door to gatehouse 3
Moved the bridge leading to gatehouse 3 to be nearer to and visible from attackers spawn
Moved Ladder 1 to the front side of the castle, left of gatehouse 1
Used fewer spike props for the wodden spikes on the front wall
Raised the walls on the entire lower section of the castle
Moved Ladder 4 to be more exposed, instead of right up against a wall
Moved lots of defenders spawns onto the wall
Moved attackers spawns into groups of 5-6 along the front of the castle, instead of in one big central cluster
Added several rooftop pathways to aid getting around inside the walls
Cleaned up some hidden props
Lowered the number of props with particle effects
Minor terrain adjustments

[Tears of Destiny]

How rather elegant, it would be nice to playtest.

And bless you for putting in a real moat.

[Ronan]

I am quite jealous... This looks like a wonderful map. Should be fun

[Leiknir]

Awesome castle, but it has some problems fitting in the 7min timer. I played it once with a full server now, and it feels way too big.
Possible solutions: Move attacker spawn between first Gate and Siege tower, shortening the time attackers need to reach the walls. Add another ladder to the inner castle, right next to the inner Gate so attackers are not forced to hack down the doors, but can go the (slightly longer) way up the walls and open them.

[Peasant_Woman]

Thanks for the suggestions Leiknir, version 1.1 is up and hopefully will make the run to the flag for attackers a little faster.  Changelog in op.

[Leiknir]

Upped it

[Peasant_Woman]

I got to play this today and it seemed fairly balanced with 2 wins for attackers 3 for defenders. One of the main complaints was that the map was too big, too much running, not enough fighting.

New version, now with less running and better spawns. Full changelog in op again.

[Camaris]

The current version of this map on the server is not balanced if there would be many players on it.
You need about 1:20 minutes to get to flag just running not fighting.
If you push Siege tower you are first time at flag at 2:50 maptime.

Perhaps put the attackers behind and on first wall. Let Siege tower direct at wall.
and let us play the map like the first wall is already taken. Might be nice then.

[Leiknir]

Compare it to other maps, there is nothing wrong with 1:20 to reach the flag. Compare it to half the native maps, takes the same time there.

[Camaris]

Mh ok thought it is very long ;)
But that is just my opinion ;)

Just thaught about it when i did my map.
If it lasts to short the defenders cant prevent attackers to get directly to flag.
If its to long it could be you have to kill the same defender multiple times until you can get to flag
once.

[Vanguard Warden]

Compare it to other maps, there is nothing wrong with 1:20 to reach the flag. Compare it to half the native maps, takes the same time there.

Yeah, but don't most of those native maps include gatehouses and other shortcuts that DRASTICALLY lower that number when used?

[Wallace]

Yeah a minute 20 is far too much... on the other hand if at the end of it you can raise a gate that cuts it down to 20 then i call fairgame

Personally I think balance comes when the run to flag is between 3 and 5 seconds less than defender respawns

[Peasant_Woman]

Ive thought about it some more and one thing I could do is remove all the gatehouses except one, no one uses the other ones anyway. The entrance to the flag area would be the only gatehouse, where the two breakable gates are now. That, and organise spawns better so that after attackers have taken the first wall they'll start spawning inside the first wall and have a straight 15-20s run to the flag through the gatehouse if they can get it open.

Spawns are real pain to get right, seeing as they aren't team specific attackers can spawn from defender spawns. This wouldn't be so bad in the middle or towards the end of a round when the attackers should be pushing the defenders back anyway but my greatest fear is that it'll happen at round start (and it often does, when I try to make spawn locations that make sense and test with 64 bots).

[zagibu]

Actually, attackers already spawn inside the outer walls. It happened to me twice yesterday.

[Peasant_Woman]

Actually, attackers already spawn inside the outer walls. It happened to me twice yesterday.

At round start? God damn it.
If thats the case then I may request that it be removed from rotation. I'm pretty sure its easily the worst map on rotation and its pretty hated, to the point that some people actually drop server whenever it comes up.
In either case I have another siege map i'm working on which is loosely based on a real castle and I am trying to not make the same mistakes as with snowfall.