Author Topic: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke  (Read 4891 times)

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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2012, 08:51:24 pm »
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A chess board with 64 or with 48... in the end there s still one losing 1 winning. the winner is most likely the one with higher skills.

A while ago with the higher turn speed everyone could land a hit with a pike turn. Now i requires more skill with the pike.

A while ago with the pole stagger it took less skill to land that second hit cause of the stagger, now you dont get a free second swing.

These chagnes didnt lower the roof, they raised it.

Are you saying that a game on a 48 tile chessboard is harder and or more complex than a game on a 64 tile chessboard?
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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2012, 08:52:53 pm »
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Last i checked stabs and overheads do the same amount of damage. Heck, with changed sweetspots, average damage is even higher.
How does making pulling them off HARDER makes combat SIMPLER/SHALLOWER/EASIER?

Does logic work different that side of the ocean? i dont even

The only "harder" was created through adding a 30 degree adjustment limit, which is not really adding much skill to the attacks use, just limiting usefulness of certain (previously mediocre) attacks since moving targets often move out of that 30 degree range between swing start and contact, ESPECIALLY at point blank range relative to long range (which is why it nerfs a short 1h weapon more than a pike/longspear).

Offline TurmoilTom

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2012, 08:54:36 pm »
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Americans are conceited bigots.

Yeah, sure, whatever you say, man.

Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2012, 08:56:19 pm »
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Are you saying that a game on a 48 tile chessboard is harder and or more complex than a game on a 64 tile chessboard?

read the other 2 lines?

If you are in a discussion please read everything, not just the first line:

A while ago with the higher turn speed everyone could land a hit with a pike turn. Now i requires more skill with the pike.

A while ago with the pole stagger it took less skill to land that second hit cause of the stagger, now you dont get a free second swing.
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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2012, 08:57:39 pm »
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Omg how can you compare a kick in ninja clothing with a stabbing attack with a 3m long pike around a corner wearing heavy armor...

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Because that kick is a hell of a lot harder to pull off and requires vastly more training than what we're talking about but is still realistically possible to perform.

Remember something important.  This isn't you personally slapping on some armor and picking up a sword then rushing off to battle.
The game isn't based off your athletic ability or lack thereof.  Maybe that is partly the reason why you think it impossible to turn while stabbing or attacking from overhead.

We're playing with characters who have trained the majority of their lives to fight with the weapons they carry and are proficient with.
Remember those skills "weapon mastery" you put points into?
Remember that "Age" that pops up every time you level up?

Are you telling me it's completely unrealistic for someone who has mastered certain weapon styles, for their entire life, to be able to attack horizontally while turning?

Is that what you're trying to tell me?
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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2012, 09:01:19 pm »
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I gave the example with the 3m long pike...

We are also talking about heavily armored men that didnt go to ninja school...

One does not simply jump while making a 360 spin wearing plate armors... even without the jump its not realistic.
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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2012, 09:01:41 pm »
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read the other 2 lines?

If you are in a discussion please read everything, not just the first line:

A while ago with the higher turn speed everyone could land a hit with a pike turn. Now i requires more skill with the pike.

A while ago with the pole stagger it took less skill to land that second hit cause of the stagger, now you dont get a free second swing.

I'm asking you to answer the essential question, revolving around the turning speed nerf, that we both know will run counter intuitive to the point you're trying to make.
Meanwhile you're trying to diverge into lesser gray areas that impact specific weapon types like polearms while avoiding the question we both already know the answer to.
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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2012, 09:04:04 pm »
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You are seriously telling me to stay on the grey area? Keep talking in vague terms without giving actual examples?

Yes im talkign about the turning speed nerf and yes im giving real in game examples to show its more realistic and harder to use... Whats wrong with that?
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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2012, 09:12:40 pm »
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I gave the example with the 3m long pike...

We are also talking about heavily armored men that didnt go to ninja school...

One does not simply jump while making a 360 spin wearing plate armors... even without the jump its not realistic.

You're telling me somebody who has trained their entire life to master a weapon style wouldn't be able to realistically spin and perform a stab while doing it?
Want me to show you a few clips of Chinese classically trained dance/martial artist demonstrations?

Also, how realistic is it that such a weapon style would only be able to attack by stabbing or using an extremely slow overhead attack?
Yes, that realism discussion goes both ways I'm afraid and can just as easily be used against your argument.

By the way, I've never seen a pike spinner use any attack other than stab.  I have no idea why some people find that somehow difficult to fight.
Hold block down and you always win.
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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2012, 09:14:08 pm »
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You are seriously telling me to stay on the grey area? Keep talking in vague terms without giving actual examples?

Yes im talkign about the turning speed nerf and yes im giving real in game examples to show its more realistic and harder to use... Whats wrong with that?

No, I'm not telling you to stay in the grey area; quite the opposite.  I'm asking you to answer the question I put forward.  How many times do I have to ask you to answer it?
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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2012, 09:21:49 pm »
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Sorry for givign imput to this discussion, after this post i will let your buddy cuddle up with you again and let the admins farm + votes again.

Yes im saying that even with the training soldiers got at those time it is NOT POSSIBLE to perform a (jumping) spinning attack with a pike while wearing plate armor.

+ yes you said: Meanwhile you're trying to diverge into lesser gray areas


Logic doesnt reach certain guys, too bad, end of discussion for me here.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:27:24 pm by Haboe »
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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2012, 09:27:23 pm »
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I get the impression English isn't your native language.

No matter...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2p46I57Fvc

Go to 20 seconds into that video.

Consider yourself proven clearly and undeniably wrong.

The funny thing is that guy isn't even nearly as well trained or honed as you would see someone from who had studied his entire life.
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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2012, 09:29:27 pm »
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Cant help myself:

Imagine that guy doing it with a much longer pike wearing plate armor. cant turn it like that without going through the floor. cant move like that with heavy armor.

+ AWESOME ARGUMENT!! Telling me english isnt my native language, that really adds depth to this discussion.
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Offline [ptx]

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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2012, 09:33:54 pm »
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Cant help myself:

Imagine that guy doing it with a much longer pike wearing plate armor. cant turn it like that without going through the floor. cant move like that with heavy armor.

But.... a second ago you said such moves weren't possible....

Clearly, they are.

It's okay to admit you were wrong.  Shows character.
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