Author Topic: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke  (Read 4892 times)

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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2012, 08:20:36 pm »
-1
rufio is cmp's clan buddy of course he will defend silly changes. derp derp americans so bad.

IN absolute terms, melee was dumbed down because 2 directional attacks were made weaker, and they weren't even strong attacks in the first place. For shorter weapons, overhead and stab have become much more difficult to pull off and have a very limited adjustment cone, and you have to be extremely careful when using them. Were they overpowered before? No, they were mediocre and situational, they weren't the best attack. I'm kind of annoyed cuz as a 1h fighter I now have even less options and have to crutch on my left swing even more so the fighting has been made less fun, and no real positive balance taken place since the nerfed things were not even unbalanced.

Yes things got more difficult... Isnt that a good thing for pro players? You can only excell in things that are too hard for the average player to do... So just opens up possibility's to be a better melee player then "noobs"
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2012, 08:21:47 pm »
-1
Don't forget about the player who were playing native back in the day. Some players just started on cRPG and never played native, some are the opposite. Some are even playing this game since it was only singleplayer.
Well as a native player that has started the game when it was only singleplayer based, I agree that melee is the core of the original game. So I want to see it as a core part of the game. That's why I completely suck as playing as an archer that can hardly aim and becomes a lvl 1 peasant when it comes to melee. In native, melee is surely the first priority of the game. Archer and obviously infantry does melee in native. Every class do melee at least 40% of the time. In crpg melee is something that only infantry, thrower hybrids and xbowmen do. So, what is left to archers? Only archery. Therefore a new problem arises, infantry mainly don't like to get killed by "cowardly" archers. Because archers always shoot from a distance and will avoid melee by running away. Which makes infantry rage. So they nerf archers. Archers complain. So they nerf infantry. Then Infantry complain and demand justice. So they nerf cav.... Neverending cycle. The balance team completely forgot that this is a game, and they try to balance it as a philosopher seeks the perfection. Needless to say, they fail hardly (in my opinion).

cRPG has the worst balance I've ever seen in a game/mod. I mean, why did you ever nerfed the swing speed. It was much more fun to play with my long espada eslavona back in the day. I never use the method of whining, but that doesn't mean I liked it.
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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2012, 08:28:04 pm »
0
Yes things got more difficult... Isnt that a good thing for pro players? You can only excell in things that are too hard for the average player to do... So just opens up possibility's to be a better melee player then "noobs"

It wasn't made more "difficult" (poor word use by me), to be more specific I would describe it as being made less useful and more limited. If the target is moving a lot at close range, stab and overhead became fairly unviable for attack options so I just lean more on swings (left swing) instead whereas before I could actually pull off a nice overhead where I tracked the target 90 degrees turning with him or into him. I fail to see any improvement in gameplay here.

Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2012, 08:29:39 pm »
0
Yes things got more difficult... Isnt that a good thing for pro players? You can only excell in things that are too hard for the average player to do... So just opens up possibility's to be a better melee player then "noobs"

I had a feeling somebody would try this argument.

Thankfully, I'm more than prepared for it.
Simplifying anything doesn't make it better for pro players because there is more limitation, less of a ceiling, a closer gap between talent and novice.  It'd be like if you changed the tiles on a chess board from 64 to 48.  Less complexity = bad for players who naturally excel because you just shrank the possibility of potential by a sizable amount.

Less room for melee potential = better for players who aren't very adept or skilled because the gap is tighter between them and veterans.
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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2012, 08:33:08 pm »
0
A chess board with 64 or with 48... in the end there s still one losing 1 winning. the winner is most likely the one with higher skills.

A while ago with the higher turn speed everyone could land a hit with a pike turn. Now i requires more skill with the pike.

A while ago with the pole stagger it took less skill to land that second hit cause of the stagger, now you dont get a free second swing.

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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2012, 08:35:04 pm »
+3
Last i checked stabs and overheads do the same amount of damage. Heck, with changed sweetspots, average damage is even higher.
How does making pulling them off HARDER makes combat SIMPLER/SHALLOWER/EASIER?

Does logic work different that side of the ocean? i dont even

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2012, 08:39:13 pm »
0
Last i checked stabs and overheads do the same amount of damage. Heck, with changed sweetspots, average damage is even higher.
How does making pulling them off HARDER makes combat SIMPLER/SHALLOWER/EASIER?

Does logic work different that side of the ocean? i dont even

Why would you even bring up NA vs EU?  Does stereotyping work the same over there as it does over here?  You do realize stereotyping is a logical fallacy, so it's kind of ironic for you to be talking about logic in the same sentence you use a logical fallacy.

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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2012, 08:39:39 pm »
-1
It isn't that EU prefers "watered down" combat and NA prefers "enriched" combat.

It's the fact that some people want an "Arcade" cRPG (where the skill ceiling and skill floor are as far away from one another as possible) and other dudes want a "Realistic" cRPG (where combat isn't the priority, realism is the priority).

Whether someone is NA or EU has nothing to do with which side they are on.

Unfortunately for those people, there is nothing unrealistic about being able to do a spinning overhead attack or spinning stab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82Ps95DIxk

I'm fairly certain if it's possible to perform a spinning roundhouse kick such as the one performed in the video I just posted, I don't think using your hands and arms to perform a spinning vertical attack with a melee weapon would be anywhere near as  hard.

This isn't a question of realism.  People are smart enough to know such attacks are possible and don't require much training. 
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Offline Lech

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2012, 08:40:06 pm »
0
rufio is cmp's clan buddy of course he will defend silly changes. derp derp americans so bad.

You cannot call me cmp's buddy, yet i agree that changes were good.

Offline Michael

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2012, 08:40:29 pm »
-4

Whether someone is NA or EU has nothing to do with which side they are on.



I disagree.

Americans tend to think that America is the world, and they are just pissed that in crpg its Austria which is calling the shots.

Hint for readers born in the USA: Austria (in this context) is not short for Australia
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Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2012, 08:43:59 pm »
-2
Last i checked stabs and overheads do the same amount of damage. Heck, with changed sweetspots, average damage is even higher.
How does making pulling them off HARDER makes combat SIMPLER/SHALLOWER/EASIER?

Does logic work different that side of the ocean? i dont even

Overhead attacks don't do pierce damage unless its with a pierce specific weapon like a morningstar.  Stabs do.  Hence your statement about doing the same amount of damage is clearly inaccurate.

Btw, I already explained how it makes combat simpler, shallower, and easier for novices compared to veterans.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2012, 08:46:13 pm »
+1


I disagree.

Americans tend to think that America is the world, and they are just pissed that in crpg its Austria which is calling the shots.

Hint for readers born in the USA: Austria (in this context) is not short for Australia

You're an idiot
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2012, 08:47:40 pm »
0
Why would you even bring up NA vs EU?  Does stereotyping work the same over there as it does over here?  You do realize stereotyping is a logical fallacy, so it's kind of ironic for you to be talking about logic in the same sentence you use a logical fallacy.
I replied to this.
The vast majority of American players don't want to see ground combat watered down.  Quite the opposite.




I disagree.

Americans tend to think that America is the world, and they are just pissed that in crpg its Austria which is calling the shots.

Hint for readers born in the USA: Austria (in this context) is not short for Australia
Oh, hey, Michael posting! I was hurting to - this one :)


Overhead attacks don't do pierce damage unless its with a pierce specific weapon like a morningstar.  Stabs do.  Hence your statement about doing the same amount of damage is clearly inaccurate.

Btw, I already explained how it makes combat simpler, shallower, and easier for novices compared to veterans.
wat.
That was in reply to
IN absolute terms, melee was dumbed down because 2 directional attacks were made weaker, and they weren't even strong attacks in the first place.
Also, yeah, i'm sure that novices are having a way easier time leading/following their targets in melee. Totally.

Have you ever thought that the problem might be in you?

Offline Spook Island

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 08:48:07 pm »
+1


I disagree.

Americans tend to think that America is the world, and they are just pissed that in crpg its Austria which is calling the shots.

Hint for readers born in the USA: Austria (in this context) is not short for Australia

Honestly, I think I speak for all Americans when I say you can water down your combat mechanics as much as you want over on the EU servers as long as it doesn't interfere with warfare over on the NA servers.

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Offline Haboe

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Re: Devs, Please Stop "Fixing" Things that Aren't Broke
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 08:48:12 pm »
+1
Unfortunately for those people, there is nothing unrealistic about being able to do a spinning overhead attack or spinning stab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82Ps95DIxk

I'm fairly certain if it's possible to perform a spinning roundhouse kick such as the one performed in the video I just posted, I don't think using your hands and arms to perform a spinning vertical attack with a melee weapon would be anywhere near as  hard.

This isn't a question of realism.  People are smart enough to know such attacks are possible and don't require much training.

Omg how can you compare a kick in ninja clothing with a stabbing attack with a 3m long pike around a corner wearing heavy armor...

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