Open flat maps on EU1 for increased teamplay and use of tactics

[Zanze]

Just want to add, I'm not one of those str crutching 2hers. I'm a 1h/hoplite. Not only do I counter cav by bringing a spear with me, I can also avoid getting shot by arrows. What usually happens is everything around me dies slowly and then I rear one horse in the front and then get couched in the back or simply trampled to death by 4-5 cav. OR, I try and move with my clan to kill the archers and they simply disperse and form a  shooting circle aka, firing squad.. The spearmen die first, then the cav come.

Luckily for you guys, you get to test out the theory of how well open plain maps work. Play NA1 for a day. Suck up that your ping will be dicks, bodies won't have collision when they die, and polestagger. Just play one day and tell us your experience in these open plains with pugs.

[SirCymro_Crusader]

Cav on an open plain, meh can deal with that. But on an open flat plain  think you missed Aprils Fools Day by quite a margin.

So lets break your suggestions down

Seriously, how come there are not ONLY randomly generated open flat maps on EU1 already?

I bet you all like teamplay and I know that crpg is supposed to be a teamplay based game with different classes (pros/cons) working together.

There is very little teamplay as it is as most 2H and polearms want to be some Japanese hero who can cut whole fields of troops down. Open plains lead to boredom and people running off trying to be all mighty hero and getting squashed by puny archers.


This is what would happen with open flat maps where everyone can see each other:

I dont want to see your mug i prefer coming behind and shoving my rod in your arse, this would limit teamplay as you so desire even further. As it would simply be who can reach each other first, yes granted youd have a few clans sticking together but after your teams run off what good can you do except get swarmed. Plus no cover = ranged delight, your horses would suffer as much as the infantry would, i prefer to not look like this when i come out of a battle

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- People learn to stick with their team as they get spawnraped or ganked by cavalry if they don't (seeing all teamates and enemies helps a lot)

Cav already spawnrapes, this wouldn't change anything as people would still run off

- Teams moving as one unit with different classes helping each other (eg. archers behind shielders defended by pikemen).

People are not going to respec for a few stupid maps

- Shield wall formations

Already happens, on a small scale, and tend to be ineffective as cav can miraculously charge a wall of shields and break them apart

- Less spawnraping and backstabbing by melee cavalry thanks to tighter enemy formations

No would lead to more abckstabbing as cav would only be able to get their kills from behind

After a while we have ARMIES fighting each other instead of the currrent "Free-for-all"-battles with people scattered all over the maps not using tactics at all.

Later on we will see more us of:

- Battle groups
- Tactics
- Formations

In the end, when all of this gets to "slow" / repetetive / boring we can start to increase game speed and/or buffing.
I know many of you dislike how slow crpg is right now but people need to learn to work together and teamplay before it can be done.

Kinda already explained the flaws, so lets focus on the good points......So more people you assume would go cav....great fun more backstabbing bastards. High K/D yay, real cool when as you say its meant to be teamplay.

I really cant see any benefits of this ive just retired from a cavalry build soo....please explain the pros before suggesting something as radical as yay new maps. Plus your a cav player, your bound to hate the cramped maps that already lead to cavalry players K/D being as they are.

[Angellore]

The fact is, flat map would require something different than just brainless charge. Something different than running in circles inside little alleys. Something different than one team camping far best place on the map and the other team trying to conquer this place round by round.
I think it’s good reason to try this idea. Random plain maps always has some little terrain advantages in some places, which is the reason why teams camp there and don’t want to move even a bit forward for few minutes. Flat maps without giving advantages in any place to any team will require organization, and won’t prevent teams from moving forward step by step.

As addition to this idea, I think it would be great to have big, deployable, 3 slots, very heavy and hard to destroy shields in game, similar height, but wider than Heavy Board Shield (shielder can put this shield on the ground and later take it again), crouching (so shielders in front can hide their heads and let archers behind do their job), walking by pressing some button to activate it (every infantry would have same speed while walking, so they can move shieldwalls in organized way) and couchable pikes held by crouched pikemans (couched pike won’t let pikeman to move, but every horse hitting couched pike will stop and receive damage).
This way shield walls could look really amazing: crouched shielders in shield walls, behind them archers and crossbowmans, and between them couched pikes (and other infantry) to prevent shieldwalls being smashed by horses.
Still, I think it’s just a dream. Infantry don’t want tactics in this game. They just prefer brainless charge, and no cooperation at all, cooperation is “boring” in their minds. So it would be cool to see this in game, but I’m afraid it's impossible to coordinate by majority of cRPG players anyway.

[Riddaren]

you are right Riddaren about open maps increasing team play but you are talking to the wrong crowd, what you have on forums is very strong infantry rambo lobby, the + of post shows it, they want to have their rambo runs with as less distractions (ranged, cav) as possible, teamplay is not their way

Guess you are right Chagan.

Anyway, it's annoying to receive so much hate when your intention was to increase the "bad" behaviour of cavalry.

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It's not like I'm going to be nicer to infantry from now on...
Neither will I bother about trying to help to improve crpg

[Tindel]

Open maps could be fun if you removed all the fucking horses.

[Oberyn]

I really can't recall if they ever behaved otherwise in cRPG, avarage Native players are faar more competent teamplayers then the ones that we have in cRPG, I guess that is becouse of the fact that Native scene is more competetive, lots of players are in the clans that have regulary trainings, matches etc. that does the difference.

HAHAHA, yeah if by "Native" you mean those two servers where good players show up (averaging maybe 30-40 people between them), as opposed to the vastly more popular siege and tdm servers where people might as well be completely retarded. Taking that into account, the average cRPG player compared to the average Native one is a genius (and that's saying something...).

[Adamar]

That makes sence, most native players are clanners playing organized matches. In crpg it's the opposite.

[Overdriven]

No surprises about a strong inf lobby here. Yet little do they realise that village maps really do help cav a lot. Bring a few pikes in an infantry formation and cav is very badly slaughtered. Heck any one who played in the huge multi clan tourney would know this. A lot of the maps the cav formations just had to fight each other because charging the inf was suicide with even slight organisation.

I'm guessing none of the inf here played in that or they'd know this.

[_GTX_]

you are right Riddaren about open maps increasing team play but you are talking to the wrong crowd, what you have on forums is very strong infantry rambo lobby, the + of post shows it, they want to have their rambo runs with as less distractions (ranged, cav) as possible, teamplay is not their way

No surprises about a strong inf lobby here.

Funny enough... the ones lobbying for more open maps is cav players. Atleast it was not an infantry creating the thread? we are just responding. U are the one wanting more maps of 1 sort.

And will u plz stop with the stupid stereotype? ''If they dont want open maps, then all of em are obviously rambo's/2h heroes''

[Overdriven]

Funny enough... the ones lobbying for more open maps is cav players. Atleast it was not an infantry creating the thread? we are just responding. U are the one wanting more maps of 1 sort.

And will u plz stop with the stupid stereotype? ''If they dont want open maps, then all of em are obviously rambo's/2h heroes and so on....''

Well you guys get your lovely hilly village maps and town maps so why can't we have some open plains maps? And by lobby I meant inf lobbying against this  It's no surprise that a thread arguing for at least some more variation in maps that contains the words 'open' and 'flat' attracts an inf group that spew out something along the lines of 'NOOOO I can't take any more arse rape from lancers, my butt hurts to much already  '.

The really funny part is that with their fear of cav blinding them the guys here don't realise that having a wide open map with inf working together would cut down the back stabbing a lot. The really open plains maps I've played in (not hilly ones) often have pretty organised cavalry charges and stuff. The plus side being that inf can be a lot more prepared. It's just quite amusing to see the instantaneous negative reactions with people giving very little thought.

I can at least understand the 'no we dont like standing around for 3 mins' arguments. But anyone who spews something about cav being to OP deserves the lance of compensation shoved up their arse.

[sF_Guardian]

@Riddaren:

This community is hard but far better than all other gamin communities.

Dont take it personally, its no hate against you, its just different players and playstyles crushing against eachother,
everyone lobbying for his own best

[Grumbs]

To be fair the original proposition was why "there are not ONLY randomly generated open flat maps". The original post presents a very 1 sided case that most people probably won't agree with. I think the current ratio of open field/town map is generally OK, but would rather open field maps were a bit more rare than currently. I would say 1 open map per 3 with lots of cover or so

[Gnjus]

The fact is, flat map would require something different than just brainless charge. Something different than running in circles inside little alleys.

That would be too much to expect from all the imbeciles playing this mod, its called utopia.

This community is hard but far better than all other gamin communities.

This community is filled with idiots who have nothing better to do then cry about "their" (as if they own it) class/weapon/whatever, most notably those who have a dedicated server for their kind (EU3) as they refuse to accept the fact that this is supposed to be a game based on teamwork and diversity instead of measuring the sizes of their micro-penises. Full cavalry battles in open field maps are the best thing you can ever imagine, those who played it in Native know that very well but we have to be realistic and admit we get bored very quickly if there is only one kind of maps, only one kind of unit dominating the battlefield, etc, etc. Diversity gives you replay value so we need it ALL, not just THIS or THAT.
As for the OP: i think there is more then enough open-type maps on EU1, i don't play that much lately but I'm practically forced to act as a piker even tho I'm specced as a full strength 2-hander. I'm slow in the open, can't evade couch, can't evade zillions of projectiles flying around me but still - instead of crying i choose to adapt and try to be of some use for my team, if not - i can always respecc/retire or play some other class via STF. Whining & crying does you no favors here, its not like CMP will allow 100% cavalry maps or 100% villages so half of the classes rape while the other half is useless, he has other forms of abuse he prefers to practice, like muting people who disagree with him and deleting their posts, your tears don't touch him as he has no soul.

[Oberyn]

That makes sence, most native players are clanners playing organized matches. In crpg it's the opposite.

Not really, the vast majority of native servers are filled to the brim with noobs. There is ONE battle server where pro's play (IG_battle server) and one duel server (Nditions), and that's it. Like I said, those two combined average at best 20-40 people. It's like some people don't really understand what an "average" means.

[bonekuukkeli]

No. I don't want to see any random plains in eu-1. It's boring to stand behind trees and shield walls, waiting to be shot and defend against tens of cavs doing swipe attacks.

What I want to see, is more village maps where you can actually go and hide behind corners so cavs can't dominate so well (but they still do ok against low-awareness guys). And in village maps it's easier to hide behind corners from archer firing as well so... yep, I want to see more infantry maps.