Author Topic: Fatigue for shield?  (Read 4929 times)

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Offline Haze_The_Hobo

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2012, 12:33:19 pm »
-10
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Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2012, 12:34:51 pm »
0
I`m not a shielder, playin nearly all classes on main and alts, my 2H and cav alts are still the easiest...

If you cant take others opinions dont post here.
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Offline bruce

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2012, 12:38:13 pm »
0
Given how the increased protection is balanced by having a harder time killing (lower reach + less damage) or fighting vs horsemen, it's quite balanced.

The anti-shield weapons lose a good part of their reach compared to non-shieldbreaker (greatswords), which is good balance overall. Making these redundant as well as weakening shielders just so greatsworders and glaive people can have an easier time is just bad balance.

It's far easier to kill using large, high damage weapons; and far easier to defend with a shield. If shields lose their defensive purpose, then there is little point to them.
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Offline Taser

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2012, 01:46:39 pm »
+1
-24 on his OP, still thinks his suggestion is fine and refuses to listen to anyone criticizing his suggestion.

Nothing to see here folks.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2012, 01:51:50 pm »
0
I dont think Hazaa wants shielders to be easy prey in a 1v1. I think it is about those people who can effectivly block off multiple people out of a fight by activating godmode by clicking RMB as long as the shield lasts, catching about 5 strikes per second with their shields with absolutely no skill involved. Among the directional fighting, the manual blocking system may be the core feature that makes this game so attracting and shielders simply go trollface.jpg

You know, one of the reasons to actually be a shielder as a good player is that you can win outnumbered even if your opponents are skilled. If this (shitty) suggestion was implemented it would fuck up the balance too much and make shields a lot worse. I'm a piker, and I'm least useful while supporting someone against a shielder btw, if you think I'm biased.

Shields need their pros too for all the flaws
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2012, 01:57:32 pm »
0
yeah limit the shielders block against constantly spam by adding fatigue effect.
O wait something seems retarded in this idea right oO

Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2012, 03:20:44 pm »
+5
new game people : let's see if we can hide all von_Hazaa posts by -1 them

Offline Joker86

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2012, 03:50:16 pm »
0
Just tell me, why should shield be uber strong last forever without hitting it with an axe??

Shielders are not uber strong. Not at all. Nobody complains about shielders being OP or killing them too easily.

Any of you guys couldn't even keep shield up for 2 swings.

Realism is a really bad base for balancing, because reality did not try to be fair, if anything, the opposite. But a game needs to be fair, and that's why reality arguments won't work in the suggestion corner.

Haven't you already noticed, this is suggestion corner, they are looking for new ideas here..

Geez stop posting here retard or read what i have said earlier.

rustyspoon is making good points. Don't insult people who actually care to give you a proper answer. Just because you don't like the answer it doesn't mean the poster is retarded.

I am not asking for old already discovered methods, but to bring in a new totally different one with a random chance in it, since life after all is an continuous event of random happenings.

Maybe you should spent your time better, than watching over the forums, since you clearly can't even read what you are being told.

You can't do it that way.

Classes are balanced to each other (at least in theory, devs are working on it), so there is some kind of overall balance. Now what you do is to pick a random class, and offer an additional possibility to defeat it. Which means, you tear that class out of the balance and make it worse. For no reason. If you offered another suggestion to make up for the nerf, like implementing shield bash (a favourite one in this forum), things would be different. That would be a CHANGE. But currently you are suggesting a NERF, and that without reason. People complain about cavalry, about two handers, crushthrough, throwers, some even still complain about ranged, but no one complains about shielders, that's why it is completely out of place to ask ofr a nerf for them.

Next to this is generally dislike the idea of "chances" in a skill based game. It's frustrating to do the right thing as always, but sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Makes the game feel more like a dice roll RPG than a skill based fighting game.

It would be biased to add it for every class, since shield is autoblocking, rest is manual.

Shield is meant to be autoblocking, and that's fine, even for multiple enemies. It's already been balanced. 1hd weapons have low reach and damage, shields are heavy and slow down the shielder, and he is more or less the only class which is rather defenseless to cavalry. If shield would be so OP, you could be sure that there would be much more shielders on the servers. But it's polearms and 2hds. Which is a bad thing, because I think shielders should be the main infantry class, but okay.

A shielder blocking a few opponents at the same time is nothing bad for me, it's okay. While he is blocking he does no harm to anyone, and he won't be able to block forever, when five opponents are hitting his shield. One of the many things rustyspoon has mentioned will happen to him, and he dies. The ability to fight several players simultaneously is a core element of the class.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 03:54:57 pm by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline bruce

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2012, 04:03:03 pm »
0
Nerfing shields has no place from either a balance standpoint or realism standpoint.

From a balance standpoint, they are not op by any means.

From a realism standpoint, unless you are in full plate and intend to fight other full-plate knights a lot (in which case, you would need a 2h weapon), a shield would be very desirable. And the "can defend easily" is just how shields are done ingame; irl you can also deflect strikes with one (leaving your opponent more exposed then ingame), hit people with one, and so on and so forth; not to mention you can fight in formation without being mowed down by arrows/bolts.


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Offline Haze_The_Hobo

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2012, 05:25:03 pm »
-8
I never said shield is op. As i said earlier, read what i say, don't make up things. :)

Oh yeah but seems like most of you can barely read.  :lol:

Maybe less c-rpg and more school?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 05:32:49 pm by Von_Hazaa »
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2012, 05:31:54 pm »
0
Good point also. I wouldnt mind when itd be the same for weapons. I gotta say though that I have never experienced players who turtle by manual blocking to be a problem, as there needs to be at least some skill to do so.

Pressing rmb as a shielder however takes no skill. Fighting shielders is probably the most boring thing in this game because even if they are complete newbies, there is no way get through their defence when they play turtle an backpaddel. This might not be much of a problem for regular inf shielders as you can simply switch targets but it is certainly a pain when throwers do it.

Id welcome some sort of "stun o meter" displayed on the hud which steadily decreases like a "overheating bar" for shooting games when not getting hits. It should calculate ps + weapon weight + damage on the attacker side and on the shielder side the shield weight + shield skill + shield type should detemine how much "stamina" he has for the shield and how fast it recovers. Of course when hitting a 6 shield skill steel shield with a dagger it should not be possible to make the shield drop. A 6 ps GS that lands a combo 5 or 6 or 7 consecutive hits or any other suitable value of strikes on a shield however should make it drop.

To prevent shielders getting outreached by backpaddeling long weapon users simply make the "stamina drain" proportional to the movement speed of the attacker, NOT relative speed bonus, i.e. when the shield gets hit by a backpaddeler the stamina drain on shield is very small, rendering shield fatigue almost unnoticable. If the attacker holds W the whole time though, stamina should get drained the most.

Again, this would not have any noticable effect on shielders with brains. As long as you are able to at least get 1 attack out for every 3 attacks you reveive from the enemy you are fine ( if you cant you should uninstall the game anyway ). And last but not least, this way crushthrough vs shields would finally find some balance by just giving those weapons "bonus against shield fatigue" or let the drain factor simply be calculated by the massive weight instead of giving them a free hit once in range.
That's actually a pretty good idea and I would gladly have this instead of shields breaking.
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2012, 05:35:09 pm »
0
This Von Hazaa guy is a troll, right? Otherwise I have no satisfying explanation for his posts.
You think you're pretty smart with your dago mustache and your greasy hair.

Offline Haze_The_Hobo

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2012, 05:38:59 pm »
-7
I just love to see when people come cry and think they own the whole forum. I mean it is suggestion corner after all, i can ask them to add throwing pile of dogshit if i want to.

To make it more realistic for the game, throwing pile of horsepoop.

Also when i make suggestion, i want people to add more to it/give their own NEW point of view, as did Xynox, Mala and Zapper, this is the way how you come up with new things..

But since most of the players are immature, they attack the idea, instead of trying to add/change it.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 05:48:11 pm by Von_Hazaa »
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2012, 05:41:10 pm »
+2
i can ask them to add throwing pile of dogshit if i want to.

It would get more positive votes than this suggestion. :lol:
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Joker86

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Re: Fatigue for shield?
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2012, 05:50:44 pm »
+1
I never said shield is op. As i said earlier, read what i say, don't make up things. :)

Oh yeah but seems like most of you can barely read.  :lol:

Maybe less c-rpg and more school?

Okay, let's see if my academic education is enough to understand what you want to say:

Also it would be fair only to be added for shielders, because shield has an autoblock, rest of the classes are manual.

I think this game has too easy system for shielders

Shields have autoblock.

I don't think everyone wants to run around with an axe or morningstar. :)

Everyone should be equipped with a weapon that's strong against shields, and as not everyone wants to run around with an axe or morningstar all weapons should be strong against shields.

Too much easymode with shields... Str is meaningless if it doesn't even help you drop down some skinny guys shield.

Although all characters have the same body model shielders are skinny and STR crutchers should negate the advantages a shield brings.

+ Shields have forcefield already, i think tht is a big bonus, just turn around and block everything!

Oh yeah and forgot, they also block arrows, even when not shielding!

Shields bring advantages. Can't be.



Seriously, usually I feel with those people who make a suggestion and then are flamed to oblivion by the community, but not only the amount of bias in your suggestion, which obviously proves that you have problems fighting shielders, also the attitude with which you treat the people who answer to your suggestion make all sympathies I had disappear.

You are just annoyed by the fact that a shielder is pretty hard to kill, and you want that changed.

When making suggestions, please ask yourself the following questions:

- Will my suggestion increase or lower the overall efficiency of the class? Do I have a second suggestion, which even the first one out, so that the class can stay at the same efficiency level?

- Will the change also influence the balance between the different classes? Will the change suddenly improve chances against one class and lower them against another? Is this in the sense of the class system and the rock-paper-scissors-system?

- When suggesting a nerf/buff, can I give objective reasons for it, instead of only my personal impression or success fighting with/against that class?

If you can't answer all the questions properly, then better do not write a suggestion.
Joker makes a very good point.
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